What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

[macedonia mule man]

I’ve heard the term Dog Man before but never thought much about it. We all grew up with hunting dogs of some description. Some people had a lot of dogs and some had a few. Everybody took care of there dogs as good as the next fellow and every body hunted them and killed game.the only thing that stuck in my mind was I’ve heard women say, he want ever amount to anything, he’s a dog man.

[lawdawgharris]

What I think a true dog man/woman is is a person that excels in every aspect of their dogs. They first off take the best of care of their dogs. They rarely need a vet because they know what to do for their animals and when, anything from worming to injuries received on a hunt. You don’t walk out to their dogs and find them without water or having to drink muddy or green water that’s so thick it’s like slime and stinks. They feed quality feed and only have as many dogs as they can afford to do these things for. If for some reason they don’t get to feed on schedule, they don’t just write that day’s feeding off, they feed as soon as they can or maybe even earlier than normal. The next thing is they have an eye for a dog. They see things, maybe it’s a few minor things, but still noticed. One of these things may not have much of an impact but the combination of several may be the difference in how the dog performs good or bad. It may be an indication of wether or not the animal should be bred or not. They have the ability to notice chemistry. To me chemistry is a big deal. If the dog and handler have good chemistry it usually makes it a lot easier to get the most out of them. If they don’t have good chemistry then it can be just the opposite. Chemistry in a pack is a big deal as well. If a dog doesn’t fit in then it likely won’t be a contributor. It makes things awkward in the kennels and dog box, and often times leads to a bunch of squabbling. Great dog people have the ability to cull and do it strictly. By strictly I mean they don’t make excuses for a dog because how it’s papers read or because of sentimental attachment. They have the ability to see where strengths and weaknesses lie in each dog and how to breed them to improve the weaker issues. There are no perfect dogs. They are all stronger and weaker in certain areas. True dog people understand and think like a dog. They know that what works for one dog may not work on the next and try a different approach. They have the ability to understand that not every mating is a home run and the wisdom to not discard the whole yard over one failed breeding. They are smart enough to back up and try a different approach. They have the ability to keep the family going at a high standard for generations. Great dog people understand the game they pursue. They know the style of dog that they believe is best for catching/baying/ treeing the game. They understand when and how to help their dogs. True dog people know what they are listening to and what is going on by listening or even watching the dog or now days even the garmin screen. True dog people know what potential dogs have as a species and as individuals. Things like drifting a track or cheating a track. Maybe it’s their scenting abilities or when they should bark verses barking out of place. These are just a couple examples of course. I believe these are the criteria for a true dog person. I do believe there are other levels of greatness. Some are great in one or two of these areas, great hunter or great breeder or great care taker etc etc., but lacking in other areas. True dog people never quit learning or listening and they are students of the game so to speak. They are always studying and trying to figure out how or what is going to make them and their dogs better. That’s MY Opinion of a true dog person.


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[lawdawgharris]

Lol mule man I didn’t know you knew my ex- wife.

To me, a lot of people use the term “made a loss” when they actually just over ran it. To me these are two different issues. I think a lot of hard track driving dogs over run the track here and there. How far they overrun it is the issue. Like Perk said, pressure produces game. If a dog is paying attention they know pretty dang quick that they overran it and hustle back and get it rolling again. One that isn’t paying attention can overrun it a good bit and then it takes longer to get back to applying pressure and could even turn into a loss. A “loss” to me is when the dog literally loses the track and has to revert to circling and what not to pick it back up. Losses happen for different reasons. Sometimes it’s the fault of the dog and sometimes it’s the smarts and cunningness of the game being pursued. I personally breed for dogs that drive a track hard. In my opinion that quality causes hogs to stop and bay about as much as knowing when and how to put mouth on one. Having both qualities is a game changer. It’s makes me chuckle to walk up to a bay and see an ole hog standing there huffing and puffing because of the pressure applied. I have a gyp I call Ava. It’s super impressive to see how fast and snakey she moves through the brush. I think about it a lot because I just don’t know how she can think that fast and be so fluent and still be concentrating on the scent of the hog. So many times I’m picking briar thorns out of their faces and they will literally knock the hide and hair off their faces because they are pushing hard and not trying to pick and choose their way through.


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[perk]

Mule, in the scenerio you just listed the red dog would get ahead of your pack, by 1/4 mile, the pack would run same track behind him and when you picked him up the pack would carry on as if nothing had happened. But in actuality something was happening the whole time, the game was running farther ahead of the pack bc of the red dog, hurting your results, if your intent was to catch said piece of game. The game was now at least a 1/4 mile ahead of your pack, giving him a lead and this precious time to escape, or time to rest a few seconds, minute, whatever, perhaps even go from sprinting to just trotting which at a slower speed leaves less of a scent funnel than all out running and cannot be ran at the same speed due to available scent for dog to follow. This red hound did nothing but continually put game at an advantage to the rest of your pack. Now he may have been a good dog, I never seen him so I cannot pass that judgement. But rest assured if he would get ahead and your pack didn't pull up to him consistently he very likely did have a bearing in the outcome of those races. Just my thoughts and observations.
Happy Hunting
Perk

[SASS]

Yup you right Perk, barking out of place is just a blanket term that covers all of those more specific things such as barking going to them, barking in the back, barking over and over on a covered track, babbling, and just not shutting up and getting to the front or shutting up on a loss. Like I said I like a dog with an honest mouth.

Renegade thank you for all of that info on the July's from over in your part of the country there. I have always wanted to add a good July to my cat pack. I would definitely like to talk to you in the future about these July's.

Lawdog I think or at least the way I use "made a loss" is as a blanket term kind of like barking out of place just meaning anytime the dogs loose the track regardless of why, and overrunning a track is just a specific way dogs make losses or looses like some of the old timers out West used to call them. But I 100% agree with your breakdown of the reasons and how dogs handle it.

Muleman it sounds like a great place you are talking about where everybody takes good care of their dogs and they all catch game. I can tell you where I am from that is not the case. Some take great care of their dogs and some don't, some catch a ton of game, and some can't catch a cold. Things are not equal and not all the same here. Same with the dogs, I think it's pretty cool that in your area all the running dogs are pretty good and can catch game. My experience has been very different and I have gone through a lot of dogs to find what I like which I have now and I have never been so excited about my pack before. Good hunting to you and I hope you keep having fun and enjoying it because at the end of the day that's what it's all about.

[Renagade Curs]

I guess it's different to everyone now days people watch their GPS instead of watching their dogs. I hear people talk about 14-15 mph average speed on their gps is what they consider a fast hound now days they're most likely the dogmen spoke about above by Perk with the truck, aluminum dogbox, gps, usually not Tacoma around here tho generally a full size older GM or Ford and Facebook. I've had a couple different half hound half beagles that would average 11-13 mph running a race by the GPS that wasn't running most people's desired game tho lol. To me like I said I like a fast track running hound with brains. One that runs to catch makes few looses when they do make a loose they need to do their best to pull back up on the animal they were after before they open again. I completely understand about having the one hound faster than the rest of your pack, as a pack can usually accomplish more working as a team. But one faster hound can change your catch ratio severely if used properly let your pack wear animal down get it stinking then feed the fast dog in. I've had races that didn't last 2 mins after feeding one hound in late in the race and resulted in caught game. I'm not talking sight race type races either. You can just tell by the hounds they're tight on their game and the animal can't shake them he's just using enough energy to keep just ahead of them. The pack at this point is just as tired as the animal it just takes that one burst of speed to catch the animal or make it tree. You can also turn this around also use the fast hound to spend some of his and the the animals energy then feed the pack in.

[Renagade Curs]

Sass there's a couple other July guys right here by me also, Lindell Keeling and JR Ross. JR lives about 5 minutes from me I don't really know him that well I've known Lindell most of my life. Lindell lives at Eminence I got a July female he raised years ago that was Leopard spotted with one glass eye or some people call Calico I called her Kallie she lost a back leg to being hung in a fence and could still stay up in a race with most hounds and if they made a mistake she'd take it away from them. She was something else she'd hit a coyote that balked on her like a linebacker even just having 3 legs. She had a lot of old southern July breeding in her went back to some hounds Charlie Walker and Seaman Rayfield had. Seaman was a old Foxhunter and Field Trialer from Eminence, MO. If you go on the Missouri University youtube page and look up Shannon County film or Documentary and go through them it will have some videos titled Foxhunt with Edward Piatt and Seaman Rayfield and Eugene Piatt turning hounds loose I don't think it shows anything of the running just asking them questions and what not. Was filmed in the early 70s i think. Idk what Lindell has dog wise now days. Edwards nephew CJ Landrigan has some nice hounds he has a older hound called Brown I think people are breeding to some.

[lawdawgharris]

Renegade I don’t put much stock in the gps tracking speed. In fact I don’t think I’ve ever paid any attention to it. There are too many variables to say what speed a dog should be moving at or what fast is. But being that I run silent dogs on hogs, I can watch my map and see if the dogs are making circles or beating up a certain area. Maybe they are getting too close to a highway or place they don’t need to get on etc. I can also send fresh dogs in to a race if I get on one of those runners that just wants to run no
matter what. It’s kinda like watching boxing with the volume down. I don’t need to hear what’s happening I can see it, lol.

As for the July’s, I have zero experience with them. They’ve always been a breed that intrigued me. I like hearing about your old 3 legged female and her tenacity. For whatever reason I had the impression that the July’s weren’t very salty as a breed. Is that not the case or was she an exception or out of a line that was the exception? Your idea about how to use the ole red dog of Mule Man’s was exactly what I was thinking too.


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[Renagade Curs]

I'm the same way I don't put faith in the GPS either I watch enough to see if I need to move that's about it. Julys generally are very salty not always the case but usually are

[macedonia mule man]

Darn Perk, I thought I was having good races after I picked ole red up. Maby I wasn’t???

[macedonia mule man]

I’ve never had any full July that I know of. When you mention full July around here you get answers like, not gritty, slow, can’t hold up in a long race. bUT it’s hard to find a pedigree that doesn’t have some July somewhere. A lot as much as 50/50. Wonder what kind of improvement the breeder was thinking about if the full July is really like that.

[macedonia mule man]

As far as mouthy dogs and dogs barking out of place, they are a lot people. If you work in a group of men you always have one, two or maby three who run their mouth a lot. Most of the time these boys are good workers and you don’t pay muck attention until they change their voice and you go to their aid. Dogs are the same way. I’ve had mouthy dogs and the other dogs learned pretty quick not to cover them till they learned when the mouthy dog was serious. Some I’ve had were pretty good help and worth hauling and feeding.

[Renagade Curs]

They're anything but slow usually and yes some of the old the old hounds in the past did lack hours that's far from the case now generally. Most of the first July men in this area switched from Walkers to Julys because their Walker foxdogs lacked grit to pull hair on coyotes to make them run or coyotes whipped their hounds out and quit. I'm just giving the reasons they gave for why they switched. My Grandpa was born in 1921 he said the first time he ever heard a coyote howl was 1942 before then they just ran red and grey fox. And I consider myself a Walker running hound guy it's what my grandpa and all my family had. Myself though I've always gave credit where credit is do and wasn't afraid to own another type of dog if it was a good one. The guys I'm talking about that are still alive at the very least in their 60s and up. Generally the ones that are in their 60s they were not the one who made the switch it was their father or older brothers or someone else in the family. And I agree it doesn't make much since to breed to hounds like they were talking about for an improvement.

[perk]

Heck mule, if you was enjoying the race after old red was out in the dog box I guess ya was having good races after ya loaded him. Dogs only gotta suit the man that feeds him
Perk

[macedonia mule man]

We had a July man back in early 50s in Attala county Ms that hunted to kill. All his dogs were large orange white, red white yellow white all ring neck with flag tails about 1-2 inches of hair on belly and backside of all four legs. He hunted by himself and had a large barn covered in fox hides. He used a double barrel and hunted them like we hunt deer with dogs. Never heard anybody say anything negative about his pack.