Southern Cat Hunting

[SASS]

Starting this topic in case there are any other cat hunters on here still or for people who just like to read about cat hunting or have questions.

As of late I have been hunting East Texas and Western LA piney woods. I've taken the last week and a half off but before that about two weeks ago hunted two days and caught one cat, and then the week before that hunted three days and caught one cat which broke a drought I had of about five or six hunts. I've put up my very best strike/start dog for breeding so it's been a little more challenging than usual. Trying to get these other young dogs to step up, we'll see who wants to be a cat dogs and who doesn't.

Going to hunt again this coming week but I have to hunt at night due to the deer hunters this time of year.

[Beebout-it]

We got a bit of snow, real spotty. I’ve found 2 good Tom tracks while deer/elk hunting and a good lion track as well. I’m so very ready for our cat season to start and there to be less people out in the hills. What kind of hounds are you running?

[SASS]

Beebout-it: "What kind of hounds are you running?"
Down here in the South, Running Dogs are king lol. I run mainly an old line of Running Walkers from the Southeast who have only been bred to run bobcats for quite some time and a few South Texas Cat dogs that were bred only for cats as well. I really enjoy them and their style.

[lawdawgharris]

How old is you startvfog that you put up? How old are those running dogs before they seem to want to be take charge type of dogs? Do y’all breed for specific dogs? I guess what I’m asking is do you just breed good dog to good dog no matter if one is a start dog and one is jump dog OR do you breed start dog to start dog etc.?


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[SASS]

If this is directed at me, there are a ton of things I look at but regardless of those I always try to breed for a better and more complete dog. Here are some of the things I take into account; I look at what I think my pack lacks and try to improve it. Firstly I look at the dogs performance traits and breeding, then I look at confirmation. I mainly line breed so I look how the pedigree lines up and what the majority of the dogs in the first few generations performed like. I think about a breeding ALOT before I do one, prob too much but that is just my personality.

[lawdawgharris]

Makes sense


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[Beebout-it]

Sass do you catch a lot of cats on the ground? If so are your running dogs killing them, or baying them up? I assume there’s not much for big trees so do they tree when a cat climbs or move out looking to strike something else to run?

[SASS]

Beebout-it: Sass do you catch a lot of cats on the ground? If so are your running dogs killing them, or baying them up? I assume there’s not much for big trees so do they tree when a cat climbs or move out looking to strike something else to run?

We catch 90+ percent on the ground. A lot of that is due to the way the cats run in the South East and some is due to the style of dogs I run. I do have a couple of dogs that locate and tree good enough though I would hardly call them real tree dogs. The rest just spread out like any other loss looking for the out track.

When we catch one they will usually stretch it.

Small trees mainly in South Texas but where I hunt in E. Texas and LA it is mainly pine plantations with pretty good size pine trees.

That is what always perplexed me. South Texas I tree around 20% and there are pretty much no large trees at all, mainly just brush but in LA all large Pines and I tree less than 10% there. Go figure. I also have a few friends that also hunt down in South Texas and they tree alot more than I do, but their pack has a lot more tree in it. These are the things that make cat hunting fun.

[al baldwin]

One has to hunt tree dogs to know how many bobcat are treeing in different parts of the country, in my opinion. Watched the podcast Brett Vaugh did with Hooti Shaw, enjoyed it very much, did notice stated very few cats in that area freed. Then is nephew stated about half the bobcats he ran treed, leaving me to wonder how good of tree dogs Hootie was hunting in his day. Taking nothing away from Hootie as a hunter and trainer, long ago heard what an excellent dog trainer hootie was. Al

[lawdawgharris]

Al, I’m not a cat hunter, but what you are saying just might make sense. I never thought about it like that. Something I learned coon hunting was that there were dogs that would tree and there were tree dogs. I do know ole Sass has a good set of hounds and I do know they aren’t accidents because his hunting circle is made up of legit cat hunters. I am interested to hear his thought process on this train of thought.


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[SASS]

Al you make a good point and I can tell you that lots of people have hunted with tree dogs including myself out here. We all started with the same thought process you stated, but had our minds changed by the results. I've hunted cats in quite a few states by myself and with lots of other great houndsmen both on the west coast and all through the South. In fact I got rid of all my West coast bred cat dogs a year or so after I moved to the South with the exception of 1 and I changed her to a blood dog for deer recovery. Hunting on both coasts with real tree dogs is how I formed this opinion.

Al if you want to understand more about this I would recommend watching the podcast with Harold Parker (I linked it below for you) he spent thousands and thousands of dollars buying top notch cat dogs from Oregon and N. California and he has the same opinion I do. Don't take this wrong, those were all very good dogs but some styles of dogs work better in some places than others. I hope that helps to understand my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jOx-jmF_6U

[al baldwin]

Sass reread my post and need to restate, was not suggesting anyone get all tree dogs. I have hunted enough to know there are dogs that can locate some cats, then there are real locators and over time know lots cats are not located, without a true locator in the pack. Long ago, Read and enjoyed Mr. Parker so much watched a couple more times. What I was saying maybe if one put one true locator in their pack might find more of those cats are treeing than one knew. Hunt whatever suits the person paying the feed bill. But if you don/t see a cat in the tree very hard to be certain. And it seems to me anyone running mostly cats that are caught on ground surely has loses sometimes where the track is lost for good. At least in my experience those type loses always made me wonder.

[SASS]

Hey Al you make a great point and are correct. But what I poorly tried to illustrate was I have had a few really nice real deal locating tree dogs, the last one I had I lost a couple of years back and she was also a really nice rig dog as well. With her on the ground I still treed somewhere around 10-15% we jumped. Right now in my current pack I have a couple of dogs that will locate but they are not real locators like my last was and you are right that is why I tree even less right now. I could be wrong but my last real locating dog is what makes me believe that even with great locators in certain regions you will prob always tree a lot lot less, but I could definitely be wrong.

[lawdawgharris]

Sass, when you do tree one, if you only have a couple that really tree, what are the other dogs doing while those dogs are looking up? Are they just not up on the tree or are they trying to leave it, etc. I know that a lot of people tried to incorporate the running dog blood into the hog dogs. Some have had good luck and some haven’t. I’ve heard two complaints about them. One was that they have a tendency to over run their nose and high caused losses. I’ve heard people say that even though the running dog blood was faster on track, there wasn’t much difference in the end because the number of losses and having to come back and pick it up again. They said the biggest benefit of the running blood was bottom. The other knock I’ve heard was the fact that they get bored real quick. As long as the hog was running they were all in, but they weren’t staying long once the hog stopped and the thrill of the chase was gone. I just wonder if this doesn’t happen at times with the running dogs on cats. Maybe they don’t lose it, they just aren’t interested in hanging around the bottom of a tree when they could just move on to another one. Kinda like ok, he won. He made it up the tree and we can’t get up there so let’s go. You know I’m no cat hunter! I just listen to your stories but I chew an them even after we are done talking about it. It does seem to me like no matter where you’re hunting, a person could benefit from having a mixture of each type in their pack. Maybe not 50/50, but like in your case, when you heard the race really getting hot maybe turn a couple of legit tree minded dogs into the race. Same thing out west, maybe having some faster running dogs in the race forces the cat up sooner. One thing for sure, no matter the species, speed kills. Track speed cause game to make mistakes and stop quicker than slower tracking dogs. What percentage of the running dogs are true treeing dogs, or would you have to bring in another breed to accomplish having a real tree minded dog?


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[SASS]

Hey Lawdog I will do my best to answer (get ready this gone be a long post lol). Keep in mind I am no expert just some random guy who likes chasing cats all over the country.

Q: What are the other dogs doing while those dogs are looking up?
A: They are fanning out looking for the track trying to make a pickup and if you have no tree dogs checking trees and locating the non tree dogs will eventually go look for another one if they don't find the track.

Q: I’ve heard two complaints about them. One was that they have a tendency to over run their nose and high caused losses. I’ve heard people say that even though the running dog blood was faster on track, there wasn’t much difference in the end because the number of losses and having to come back and pick it up again.
A: Overrunning tracks can def be a problem and usually happens the most with young dogs but good dogs learn, their brain and nose match up to eachother. But this takes putting them on tracks to get the experience to learn. Like anything else some have this problem more than others and some never learn and are in my opinion culls. The old lines I run now it has not been a big problem though it still does happen sometimes when they are young. An old cat hunter I used to talk to from time to time used to always say two biggest race killers were overrunning tracks and barking out of place. I don't know if I totally agree with that but it definitely has some validity.

Q: The other knock I’ve heard was the fact that they get bored real quick. As long as the hog was running they were all in, but they weren’t staying long once the hog stopped and the thrill of the chase was gone.
A: I've heard the same thing and I can not give any real first hand knowledge when it comes to hogs but I can give a lot of first hand experience of my pack, my mentors pack, and other friends packs baying cats on the ground. But with my lines of running dogs they have been bred sooooo long for only cats that I could see them not having much natural interest in hogs/bears etc. But with cats it is not a problem if they can see them.

Statement: It does seem to me like no matter where you’re hunting, a person could benefit from having a mixture of each type in their pack. Maybe not 50/50, but like in your case, when you heard the race really getting hot maybe turn a couple of legit tree minded dogs into the race.
Response: I think to some degree you are absolutely correct and I have, I have had a couple of real deal locators and it did catch us a few more cats but not as many as you might think, or at least that's the way it seemed to me.

Statement: Same thing out west, maybe having some faster running dogs in the race forces the cat up sooner. One thing for sure, no matter the species, speed kills. Track speed cause game to make mistakes and stop quicker than slower tracking dogs.
Response: You are correct but only so much and it benefits more in some regions than others. That is why when I was out West most people had incorporated running blood mainly Trigg but some other stuff too into their lines. But the trick was getting the right amount of it, not too much but still enough to get a benefit.

Q:What percentage of the running dogs are true treeing dogs, or would you have to bring in another breed to accomplish having a real tree minded dog?
A: Depends on the line, I would say with my Southeastern blood pretty low %. But with my South Texas dogs much higher though still no where near a pure Tree bred dog. The old South Texas cat hunters did a lot of that work for us already and did add in some tree blood way way back.

Final observation in this long winded post: From my direct experience of years of hunting out west and years of hunting in the South, out West it's nice to have speed but you don't have to have it. Consistent, accurate pressure makes cats tree. In some places in the South you have to have at least some speed and even more so a certain track style or that cat will just trot in front of you forever since it has no plans on climbing. There are always exceptions to both of those thoughts but in general that is what I saw.