Holes

[Andyva]

What do your dogs do when they run a fox in a hole? Do they stay and bark in the hole, or do they circle around wider and wider and finally quit and come out? I'm not talking about having one backed up under a rock where they can see it, but in a deep hole. Seems like with the coyotes we have here, fox don't stay up long, especially in the daytime. 1/2 hour is a good run in the daytime. My old dog will quit and come out after circling a while, my pup has stayed at the hole a time or two , but she is young and ready to quit at that point most times. These holes we have aren't good den holes for raising pups, they are usually on top of a mountain, a half mile from water. Sometimes they play and circle in those high rocks and then beeline down and hole next to a creek, that seems more like a den hole maybe.

Next question, is this tied to treeing instinct? I had an old coon dog that I never broke off possum, if he ran a possum in a hole that he couldn't almost reach him he quit it, but he would tree good. Saw this happen several times. I am inclined to think that it had more to do with being smart, but I guess if you culled dogs that stayed at a hole, you would end up with some smart and some dumb. I don't suspect that pen hunters would have much use for a dog that stayed at a hole.

[Dan Edwards]

Some of our dogs are good locators and some not so much but they all get good with age. Yes I believe its tied to the tree instinct. Its a delicate balance between the desire to run and run and the desire to bay/tree. It don't always work out like ya had planned.

[undertheradar]

Alot of our dogs will stay. I used to care about them staying at the hole but not so much now. We dont dig em up anymore because we dont have alot of game.

[1bludawg]

How hounds react to varmints that go to ground is quite varied and interesting .For example some good tree dogs will sit down and tree
like the game climbed while others will quit and come out.Dogs that won't tree at all will sometimes bay at a hole for hours .
A couple of my better cat dogs would only tree at a hole if something else did ,if they were by themselves they would immediately come out .
Probably the worse thing that can happen is having dogs flip the track at the hole and go screaming back on the backtrack .
Another thing worth mentioning is that grey fox will go to ground moreso than a bobcat .At least in my experience.

[Dan Edwards]

1bludawg,

I ran only a few grey in my life and that was with this trashy lil brindle cur bitch I had. They holed so fast I cant even imagine it being much fun to run them round here to be honest.

[Andyva]

[1bludawg]

I wouldn't like it if most of them went in a hole but some of these will put up a good race before treeing . Some put up to good a race as these culls of mine don't catch them all.
I like the fact that they'll come out of a tree pretty easy and give you another chase. I treed one last season that my ole Rogue dog was the only one treeing while the younger dogs were running around still looking for him. I started yelling at them to come to the tree but as soon as i began hollering that ole fox ran down the tree and bailed out. I had another race and the young dogs sat down on that tree.

[undertheradar]

Our ground is so thick you can get a 30 to 45 min race out of a grey fox with 25 dogs... If the woods is tall mature trees and open underneath, there isnt a fox there.

[perk]

Andy, I prefer dogs who stay dig /bay at a hole. Let's me know the race ended at a hole not just got away, I try to breed dogs that are more apt to display that trait, generally see it as a dog gets older and more confident.
Undertheradar I agree no greys in the mature timber here either, I expect the terrian there is much different having worked a lot up and down 81 and and Shenandoah valley area of Va on dairy farms.
I can say if a jumped Fox race only lasted in front 1-2 dogs on average less than 10-15 mins I'd be out the business.

[stevemac]

Ive own several foxhounds and hunted red fox my best hound would either catch above or say and sit and bay on a den until I arrived. now days I hunt them with lurchers and They will hunt them up along with the terrier If they come to a den they will check the den and mark it if his home or just walk on by if he is not. Even My terrier will not enter if the den is empty which is good as it save a lot of time unlike a dog that false marks a den.