False Tree

[LoudmouthSpike]

Just looking for some ideas on what happened to us today. We had struck a small bear on the road and put a few dogs down. They Trailed slowly for a few minutes and then really got up and going up the ridge. At this time I let my pup go and she headed up the ridge behind them. About 20 minutes in and about a mile up the mountain the old dogs fell treed and the pup was just about caught up. We drove around and started in to the tree about 30 minutes after they went treed. As we approached the pup was still trailing on top of the ridge towards us, we caught her up and brought her along. When we got there all 3 dogs were hammering on the tree. We tied them back and started looking around through the leaves, after about 15 minutes we could not find a bear anywhere. The dogs were all still hammering and the bank was loaded with fresh bear sign. Just wondering if anyone has had this and if so why do you think the dogs did this. Could the bear have jumped far enough that the dogs wouldnt see him land? Lets hear what some of you guys think Im still learning and any ideas would be great.

[BEAR HUNTER]

Have had this happen before. It usually happens when one dog likes to tree a little to much. They smell all the scent around the tree and go to hammering it. The other dogs join in. The one time it happened to me was with a new registered walker I bought. Would false tree on coon so I turned her into a hot bear race. She ran for about 30 minutes and went to treeing. The other joined her. Empty tree. She didnt come back. The only other time it has happened is when we ran a fisher. They act alot like a bear race but will tap the tree.

[dhostetler]

I have sometimes had my dogs grab the wrong tree on cougars that were in a tree 50 to 100 feet away. If they were treed on the wrong tree I would figure out which way the wind was coming to find it. I always figured if it jumped they would figure it out as there wouldn't any wind scent coming to them anymore.

Never had it happen on bears they always have the right tree. Did you have a hollow tree or possibly a cub hidden in leaves?

I have been involved in a few false trees but never started by my dogs as far as I know there is no cure for it. If it happens again I would try to figure out which one is starting it and get rid of that one. It is very easy to tell if you run garmins.

[BEAR HUNTER]

Hostetler is right. There is no cure for it. Even John Wick in his books says he hasnt been able to cure it. One thing he says though he had a dog that was ending up on a lot of false trees so started looking to see what was actually going on. He started seeing a little mouse way up in the branches. Started using the tri-tronics and cured the dog. My dog was just a slick treeing knucklehead. I tried to cure her with the tri-tronics. No luck. Only way I cured her was putting her down. On a hot bear race there should be no false tree. There is way to much scent.

[Tree_m]

I had a dog that would slick tree. He would have all the dogs treeing with him. Good way to mess up the young dogs. If it happens again you should maybe rotate the dogs to see which one may be doing it.

[Ankle Express]

I'd guess the bear tapped a tree. How experienced are these "old dogs" at bear hunting? If they really inexperienced at bears too (as you) then I wouldn't condemn them just yet. Going out on a limb here with your situation but even just a little experience running and treeing coons can cause a dog to pull up short where a bear has tapped a tree. Seen it many times. Usually this can be fixed. Keep a short memory and keep turning them loose. You basically need a bear that doesn't want to tree so easy if a tap was your problem. Just a bear that drags them around and doesn't tap a tree till they make it do it right in front of them. Doesn't have to be the same bear but eventually they need to see the above scenario but then it climbs back down and drags them around again and back up a tree. Usually pulling up short for tree tapping will be fixed at this point. Even better is if they are alone in the above scenarios. Fixed alot more than tree tapping then. Another guess could be with bear sign seen around the tree on the banks I might wander if that bear hadn't been feeding up that tree? Service berries up there? They coming in here now. I'm starting to believe they spend as much time up trees in the spring eating budds and tender young leaves as they do in the fall lapping cherries, scaling hickories and breaking out the oaks. If so it was like a big tree tap. Don't evaluate your pooches to hard over one bear race good or bad. Like Pete once said "they beat the bear there"! If you real worried leave your pup at home but turn that other $hit loose. Good Luck

[radar]

You ever think small game has anything to do with it? hard to for dogs to false tree on a bear. Never heard of a bear tap'en a tree cuz its useually pressure that puts'em up.did you find strong evidence that there was for sure a bear up that tree at one time?I coon hunt probly 85% more than bear hunt and see some false tree action.But not on bear unless you could see scrape marks up the tree or some where, were they had it stoped and he pulled a move.We don't get to mad unless theres nothing but older dogs if there yung ones, hey at least there tree minded!!!!!We useually suspect a fox or coon if there isn't evidence of something bigger.But its also a sign that the big or small game have yungen's around and moms showing them whats up with the tree get away.During that time it takes a good dog to line stuff out.JMO

[norcalkemmer]

It is something you can fix with enough work if it's worth it. a friend of mine had a dog doing it on coon and he just started to discipline the dog there and walk it around the area until it picked the scent back up. he told me it took lots of trips to the woods and to false trees before he fixed it but now when he opens you know you will have a coon.

[bearhunter77]

I think bear hunter and norcal have good points. There are those who love to tree and if they get a whif of bear on bark they'll tree. They must love the sound of their voice On the other hand I have friends who use to have slick treeing hounds in their pack and used them all their lives. They just kept working with them and eventually the slick treeing reduced significantly. I guess it just depends on whether or not a person has the patience. All hounds will have their flaws in my opinion. Whether their flaws out weigh their benifits is the important factor.

[Hi Tech]

An “Ol timer” told me one time if you don’t want to be disappointed don’t hunt hounds. Sometimes, I just have to scratch my head at what mine do! Now if this was a constant problem then you might need to break the dogs up and find out whose is doing what. Ankle express is probably right on track. A lot of times a bear will walk up on a tree to listen or check the wind, then gone again. This could have caused the empty tree. If I was sure they were right, I would have taken my better hound and made him go on. After he got it lined out I would have put the others down to him. Eventually they should have worked it out and ended up right. There are way more factors to consider, but from what you are describing just a miss that’s all. Heck happens to all of us. A bad day hunting is better than a good day at work!

[Ankle Express]

A lot of times a bear will walk up on a tree to listen or check the wind, then gone again. This could have caused the empty tree.

Somebody with some sense and experience. Not surprised in the slightest we are on the same side of the big river Hi-Tech! Slick trees and pulling up short are two completely different animals for one. I could go on and on about this but if you've never seen or realized how much or how many bear use their hearing, nose or whatever else they can come up with to stay in front of dogs you don't really have much experience or you got the most inexperienced, never seen a dog, easy bears anywhere. Bears around here are capable of anything. Have you never seen a bear take one dog and drag it around from point a to point b and c and then d all the while the calvary runs their hearts and guts out wide open playing catch up only to eventually be ran out and never catch up to the bear or one dog? Dog one stays longer than all the rest but it moved with the bear. Calvary was killed by never stopping for a breather at a,b,c or d. I guess some bear can get lucky once and pull that off. Dogs could just be behind and that happen. However I've seen some that will purposely listen and not let that second, third, first or fifteenth dog ever catch up to it. Killed a few of them and thats exactly what it took to eventually do it. I know of alot of bear that won't/didn't go any further than they had to, don't/didn't run any harder than they had to and made dogs work to catch up. However they do it they will listen back at the approaching dogs. Alot of bear will mark, tap, jump up or whatever you want to call it to a tree and listen back. I’ve actually seen it happen. Its just what they do to try to stay ahead of the dogs. Some bear get good at it and can get away at will. We like to say we got out ran but in fact you just got abused most likely. The coon reference ties to this because a lot of folks use coons and or coonhunting to start their dogs. Me too. However it can bite you in the butt so to speak if dogs are taking the first track up. Multiple coons on track dog trees first one up. This can be inherited or learned. Learned you can fix. Ideally for bears and biggame we want the dogs that naturally takes the last track and trees it. Most natural skill set available for big game if they can pick up their head and run. We don’t usually know what we are re-enforcing in pups heads in these situations coonhunting. They accidentally learn it sometimes and you can accidentally fix it in the right situation is all I was saying. It will show up sometimes when dog(s) are pulling up short on bears. If they learned it, then its not completely their fault. JMO

[BBGH]

I had a walker dog for a short period of time that loved to tree. It took me a little to figure out what was going on but this was his story... Whenever we got onto a mean bear that just wanted to walk he would hit the first tree and lock down. It took me four bay up jobs to figure out what it was. All my other dogs would be on the bear and he would be in the canyon the bay up started in locked down treeing every single breath. What I decided was every time a bear challenged the dogs he would quit and start treeing. He just was not a bear dog. Not saying that is what is going on with your hounds that is just what happened in my experience. Hope that helps

[dsodstiks]

bears also stand up and rub against trees putting alot of scent on a tree. there shaggy this time of the year around here. had my best start dog lock up on one this week and never made the mistake of false treeing. Bear hair and scratch marks were all over the tree.

[pete richardson]

i think ive seen more than my share of slick trees when bear hunting
-i can only guess why ---and i think its been a lot of different reasons -

too much tree dog---- too much bear and they really just needed an excuse to quit-
a dog fight .

sometimes , the bear actually had been up that tree ----that is hardest to correct

ive had dogs that almost never did it-- when they did -i always wondered what wasnt in that tree,


if they are running fisher ,,, u might see a lot of slick trees

the good thing about that is ,, i think its easier to trash break than it is to cure a dog that just trees too easy
-

ive seen old dogs tree just because they got outrun
or thats how it seemed to me ---
some dogs ,, a little discipline cut down on slick trees alot-i wouldnt worry about 1

[Dan Edwards]

pete,

I love to read your posts partner. I think they get better as the years go by brother. You know dogs.