Topper Again/ Centerfire Sampson/ Samson

[fargo]

These Three dogs are supposed to be full brothers and people have been breeding half brothers and sisters then crossing them back with the other brother. I am very interested to find out how they are doing and what their conformation and desire to hunt and tree is like. I would like to see some pictures of these pups and if someone don't mind posting them and pictures of the two samsom dogs and topper I am interested in finding out what is working best all input is welcome but leave the mud slinging out. I would like to find an outstanding male from one of these crosses to maybe breed a female to it but want to know about the females too. And what crosses you will make in the future. I know some of this is holy ground for some of you and you want to keep the money seekers out I am very sincere about my hounds but have run into so many of the wrong people for help so I thought this might give me an avenue to open some doors

[Mike Leonard]

Centerfire Sampson and Sampson are the same dog the Centerfire is his registered name but he is simply known as Sampson out west. Although very closely related Topper again and Sampson are not littermates or even the same cross.

Topper Agains was sired by Hussey's Hunter and dam was Holt's Tazzie

Centerfire Sampson was sired by Wolf Mountain Boomer but his mother was also Holt's Tazzie. Boomer was sired by Morosok's Bobby as was Hussey's Hunter but he was out of a female called Ellinthorpe's Raven and Boomer was out of Morosok's Little Windy who was out of Sawdust and Morosok's Sugar who was also sired by Bobby. Raven was out of Miller's Danny Boy and Miller's Sally.

so you see these dogs are very closely related however thru their second dam's Centerfire Sampson has a slightly closer full line to Nances Little Topper.


I have photos of both of these dogs but not here where I can post them.

Topper Again is a beautiful hound tall probably 25-26 inchs and weighes 75-80 pounds I would say/Red Head blanket backed and good hound ears.


Sampson is a nice looking dog but not as large probably 22 inchs and maybe 55-60 pounds. He has a blanket back and a tan brown head.


Hope this help a little. If you are looking at either of these dogs and you are a cat hunter I would say you are looking in a good spot. I have dogs out of both of these sires and none of them are for sale.

[high desert hounds]

I hate following Mike L on any post because he is always right on. Here's what i have found out first hand over the last couple years. I have dogs out of both right now and have had dogs from both sides in the past. I would take any sampson bred pup but would be more selective as to the topper pups that I would take. The sampson pups that i have seen have been more consistant. I have a female out of topper and millie right now and she is an awesome dog. I just bought a dog out of sampson that is double sampson bred and washburn. He is just a pup but I have high hopes for him when I get him out here. I will breed my topper bitch back to a sampson bred male giving the pups a double shot of millie and a shot of topper and sampson. With all the work to reserect the little topper line why are we all still trying to go to just topper and sampson. There are tons of proven stud dogs that are out topper and sampson. Jeff Allens ACE II dog is an awesome dog and a proven reproducer at a young age. Jeffs Buck dog is an outstanding dog that is a tight nance bred dog but jeff isn't offering him for public stud yet. My point is this. They were needed to serve a purpose, and that purpose has been served. The truth is there are better stud dogs out there now. These dogs carry the same great blood with a lot of the holes covered up. Isn't that the point of breeding, to get better and better. I'm sure Dean has kept a replacement for Sampson as I'm sure Andy has kept a top male to replace Topper. Just what I have learned about these two great males. James G. Moore 541-413-2005

[Mike Leonard]

James thanks for following up. What are you hunting your Nance bred dogs on?

As far as follow ups I know most of them . I only started in hounds a short time ago as a full time project. I beleive it was 1970 and if folks want follow ups on the cross you were speaking of Ace 2 but to raise pups they gotta come to me or Big N Blue. Problem is if you want to breed Flirt you gotta go to Jeff and breed to Ace 2. Her sister who was originally called Classie and later Chassie who was picked for me due to her superior nose, handle and over all huntabilitly(is that a word?) will make great pups!



The two litter picks in this bunch were Cricket now with Dad's Dog boy and Sammie Joe here at my place. As for males Newt, Jasper, Hondo, and Ace 2 all pretty much the same.
Ace 2 has turned some heads but Hondo has by far been the most exposed and he is Sampson made over only a little cleaner and faster.


I sure wouldn't overlook Thomas Hondo( Thomas is for Tom White my wife likes that dude and so do I). He is what we call desperate to catch. If you have a female that will catch a lion on her own wait 7-11 days after she starts and then call or PM me. Come by we will introduce her to Tommy Hondo for $500. no pay if she doesn't take. I get one pup if I so desire.

About as close as you will get to Nance's Little Topper 2 Time World Champion Bobcat Dog.


Enough marketing today, I am going to check the horses and the dogs and watch Whale Wars or American Pickers or read Brave And other Stories again. LOL!

[twist]

fargo, Mike hit it on the head, if you are looking for info on Topper Again offspring look at my post on (Topper Again Nance breeding) you can get ahold of just about everyone of the guys on there that are hunting his offspring and they would more than likely send you pictures and tell you first hand what calibur dogs they are. later, Andy

[fargo]

Bawl Mouth, I agree that with the crosses made onto these two top hounds that some of the offspring should be outstanding and that using one of these young dogs would be a smart decision but there again it's being informed on where they are at and the avaiability of them. That might be a good idea for a new forum here in BGH for the guys that have some of these outstanding males to put a little write up about their dog and leave a phone number and the main part of the dogs breeding it sure would be nice for the guys that have females and looking for certain big game bloodlines. Thankyou for your input Fargo

[fargo]

Babble mouth, Thankyou for all the information it helped to fill in the gaps. I would really like to find out more about the Hondo dog I will PM you about him. as a boy I read the storys about Mr. Green and his long eared, bawl mouthed hounds trailing behind and around the horses going on a hunt like you do I always hoped I would get the chance to do this it is still on my things to do list. I envey those who get to do this on a regular basis. I would say with your knowledge and experiences you could tell a many great storys too..................Thanks again Fargo

[Justaguy]

I really love this genetic stuff it seems to fill in all the holes when you read about this dog or that one. And why people really want to get a pup from this cross or that one, which does not seem to be apparent to those of us not in the know. It's really a big family of hunters all hunting brothers and sisters and uncles and aunts and so on and it is very clear to those of you on the inside. Or to those who have been around a long time and know of these crosses and whose who. I thank you for your open discussion of the line and I have learned a little more.

I would like to ask one more question if I may.... Who owns Sampson and does he stud him? I am just trying to put the bigger picture together....

Thanks

Joe

[twist]

Dean Lyman, Blanding Utah. If you need more info Mike L. can fill you in. later, Andy

[Mike Leonard]

I think you guys who are trying to put the bigger picture together are just like me and so many others in the past. By the time we wake up and smell the roses they are gone.

Hell man these dogs are old, Sampson coming 11, and Topper Again 12.

Well let's study on this a bit longer???????

[twist]

Mike you have got that right buy the time everyone decides to jump on the boat its already gone. Old Topper told me to tell you he isnt as old as you think he is coming 11 in August but either way he is getting some age on and wont be here forever. later, Andy

[norcalkemmer]

I hope he makes it another year or so i wouldn't mind breeding him to my female. have you had success with crossing him on lipper or pac man blood? my lil female is heavy old blood lipper and pac man.

[high desert hounds]

Mike hit the nail on the head when he said these dogs are old. But it doesn't matter if they are gone tomorrow. If there are dogs with the same blood lines, that are better more complete dogs, and proven reproducers. Then why would you want to go backwards? This seems like a no brainer. This is a realy good thread. I wish more people would chime in and let us know what direcion they are heading. This is where I'm heading.
Flirt X Ace II= millie topper, millie sampson
jess X AceII
Jess X Tom dog in vegas = This is the cross that produced jeff's buck, bell and flow

Then if Jeff is willing I will start breeding to his Buck dog. Buck is a small tight built dog with a ton of grit. He can scream down a bear at full speed and grub a cold lion the next day. He has a realy cold nose and I think that is the difference maker.

Finaly and hopefully before I breed myself into a corner, some out cross. Washburn, white cloud, house, bozo ? Who knows, maybe someone on here has made an outcross that is working real well.

James G. Moore 541 413 2005

[twist]

Just to let everyone know Topper is looking very good and doing well and for him crossing with Lipper or Pac Man blood, here is my thought if she has any hunt in her what so ever your chances of Topper Again crossing with her should be some outstanding results. As to Mike post what he is getting at is everyone is always standing around wading in the water when they need to just commit and jump in. Yes he said these two hounds are getting some age and while everyone that is hum hawin around wondering what route they are going to take and checking every other route that might save them a couple cents, to maybe get that hound of a life time they are missing the big ride. These two great hounds have nothing to prove in the BIGGAME WORLD they have already done that from catching game to being top producers. Like high desert hounds has said they have produced many great hounds and they are and will be here to breed to now and in the future (but the only question would be are they a proven reproducer yet?) I truely believe that if you have a female that has hunt in her, that breeding her to Topper is a wise choice. Happy 4th weekend to all. later, Andy

[high desert hounds]

With all do respect, you just don't get it Andy. No matter the facts or the line of a conversation, you will just come back with a sales pitch for topper. Good for your wallet bad for the progression of the breed. Your job is to promote topper and my job is to push my chosen breed forward. Obviously you are blinded by toppers hallo. Later
James G. Moore 541 413 2005