Speed in a cat dog

[dwalton]

We talked about cold nose, how about speed in a dog how important is that for catching game. Dewey

[Marshall]

Speed can be good and it can be bad. It all depends on how the dog uses it i would say. some of the best bobcat dogs i have ever seen or had the privelage to own were slow slow slow but, they didn't make the loses that the faster dogs did. If you find a dog that has good track speed and DOES NOT make all the loses that most of the faster dogs that i have seen do then i think you will have something. For you guys over there, they need to locate extreemly well too. Most of the dogs that make those kind of loses on a bobcat will actually do pretty well on big game but, a bobcat is in a league of its own in my opinion. Good topic and i will be lookin forward to see what other people think. Again this is just my opinion.

[George Streepy]

Two best I have owned weren't very fast, but managed to put up game. It takes more than speed to catch bobcat.

The bad part is when you hunt your slow dogs with a fast one that actually has a good nose and smarts to boot. It makes those slow ones look pretty bad. My slow dogs got flat burned by fast dog, it was depressing. How can a dog move a track that fast? The rest of the dogs were just doing there best to try to catch up. Every time I see that dog I want to take it home, it is to bad the guy knows exactly what he has.

[houndnem]

Totally agree george.
I did have a dog I called spot that was out of my first batch of pups. he would just haul a$$ past the other dogs like he wasn't even interested in the track. strangely enough he was always first one on the gps to the tree. never could figure out how he did it, and of coarse I found him dead in the kennel with no rhyme or reason why he died. now I have a bunch of way fast young dogs and one old faithful that comes behind them and plays cleanup for the ones they miss.

[live to hunt]

It is nice to have alot of speed right up to the point of a dog over running this nose. Fast dog with alot of loses = slow dog no loses

[houndnem]

It is nice to have alot of speed right up to the point of a dog over running this nose. Fast dog with alot of loses = slow dog no loses

that's not always true. not to sound like a dick, but what about the ones that are haulin a$$? only so many hrs in a day. that's why they are pack animals. fast ones to keep you on schedule and slow honest ones to keep ya from blowing past them. jmo

[twist]

Speed is a must if you are wanting to catch a high % of bobcats no ifs about it. Yes it is true that old steady and reliable will catch a certain amount of cats but the cats that are runners and have been chased or treed a few times get pretty savy and a good old steady reliable hound will gets its butt kicked on these type of cats more times than not once they are up and jumped. The hound that can trail with great speed and accuracy and then kick in the after burner once it is jumped is leathal on bobcats. later, Andy

[LarryBeggs]

When I was a kid we had a dog Topsie that was not fast but still had enough speed to putt pressure on a cat.I remember several times walking off in some brushy canyon to find her mauling a cat she had caght on the ground.I remember her trailing a cat for twelve hours before she jumped and treed it one day.In 1978 the year I turned twelve she was getting old and had slowed way down dad traded her for a couple of young dogs that in a couple years turned out to be part of a pretty good pack of dogs.I was not a happy camper.A couple years later when those young dogs were about three and could flat run and she had one foot in the grave on a hot afternoon we turned out on what we thought was a bear about 10 min. later those three young dogs bounced a cat across the road in front of us and lost it right beside the road .We asumed it had treed and they hadnt located yet.About 5 min. later Topsie came across the road and never even slowed down where they had lost it.As we were bear hunting we managed to catch the young dogs .About midnight we caught her. To slow to put enough pressure on it to catch it.It takes enough speed to pressure it and the smarts and nose not to make loses to make a good cat dog.

[George Streepy]

Those slow dogs of mine caught most every day during the kill season. When a bobcat gets to twisting and turning that is when they really shined. Few loses and every time it was caught on the ground, one of the slowest was the one to get a hold of it. Slower dogs have there ups also.

I am talking about cat dogs, even the slow ones can run with their heads up as the track starts to heat up. They just don't move it as fast as some others can. If a dog is to slow to catch up to and tree a bobcat, it probably isn't really a cat dog. Old dogs excluded.

[dwalton]

Every one likes to have a fast dog, the first to hit the road on a running cat. The speed gets in the way I feel if they can't hold the track. Some of the best cat dogs I have owned have not been fast. I have on many occasions caught the lead dogs off a track so the slow could go and catch. If the lead are over running the track, I feel that is what teaches a cat to dodge and turn. Steady pressure works on most cats. If you have the speed and don't over run that's great. Great posts guy. Dewey

[Nolte]

I really shouldn't even be putting in my thoughts on this because I'm not much of a cat hunter. We usually just harass cats with our semi-bear dogs. Fast dogs don't always run cats great unless they don't make many losses. If they can nose can keep up with their feet they may be something.

I have seen quite a few cats in the woods or on the road while the dogs are after them. Not many times are these cats running fast. Most times they are doing that little constant trot back and forth, round and round. You see that and think, Jeez why can't Spot catch up to that thing it's not even running hard. But it's the track that is laid that is difficulat not the speed of the critter. On a circlin cat the one track might only be 5 minutes old while the next is only 3 going the opposite way, that is tough for thick headed dogs like mine to figure out. If you can get a cat to line out, then you've got a better chance of closing the distance if the dogs can line out of that mess on him before he starts another one. And sometimes they never leave the mess. I think a lot of cats are lost because it pulls some tricks and the dogs never locate or find his hold up spot.

[Dads dogboy]

Mr. Dewey,

Another Great thought provoking Post!

All of the above answers are right for where the Hunters Posting are Bobcat Hunting.

Now here in the Piney Woods and Pine Swampland in the South and Southeast, you had better have the "Football" Team analogy in your Pack if you plan on CONSISTANTLY putting the Scales to work.

Twist said a Mouthfull when he said Speed will catch you a high percentage of the Cat Jumped.

With Dad's, Glen Rybard's, Harold Parker's, and Mr. Jim Moores packs you will find the Steady Track Running style Hounds (SLOW) and the Cunning Running, Slashing, Swinging style Hounds(FAST), that we have to have to take the "Slack" out of the lead that the Ole Shorttail will gain after one of the "Tricks" that Bobcats are born knowing how to pull on a Pack of Hounds.

All Bobcats are born SMART and know their Home Territories like the back of their Paws. They know where and how to use all of the Assets that both God and Man have put out there for them to use to confuse and befuddle Hounds.

Here in our Country it is not just Cat Hounds aggrevating Bobcats, it is the Deer Hounds that it is Legal to use. Most Deer Runners run their Hounds Year Round to keep them in shape and they generally do not know or care whether the Hound are running a Deer, Yote or Bobcat in the off season. This just aids in the Bobcat's learning curve as to what tricks work best to throw a Pack off their mission to pull some Cat Hair! Bobcats can earn their BA, and MA in escapeology here with out ever hearing a Pack of CatHounds on their trail.

Cunning Speed is essential in being consitantly successful; however a Pack must also have the "Steady" Track runners who are the Glue that will hold the Pack together!

Just what works for us!

CJC

[George Streepy]

I like everyones responses they all make sense. Some bobcats have a tremendous burst of speed for a short period of time. They can really move out accross brush and thinning piles at rate 4X that of any hound. They just can't maintain that speed for long periods of time. I have watched them bounce through obstacles that left the dogs way behind. Quite impressive really. The hard part is for a dog to close the ground neccessary to keep the track warm enough. If the cat doesn't slow to crawl or completely stop to rest a dog with good speed can help a lot. There are many fast dogs, but like others have said, the fast ones that have the nose and smarts to back up their feet are the real special ones.

[cat and bear]

Great Post Dewey, seems like everything, dogs, style, hunting terrian and conditons, we all face, differerent factors to catch cats. Here, our cat season we have snow, seems like a couple of dogs, is best working together. As dads dog boy says, brain, brains, brains. I like the team to cold trail almost as fast, as jumped, with no mistakes, working together. Nothing can beat, good steady pressure, and a little speed thrown in. The tricky buggers, usually will hit a river or creek, and run the white ice,or the ice along the open river, or anything else, in their favor, a blown down cedar swamp, jumping blowdown to blowdown. But if that team, keeps the steady pressure, picks their head up, and keeps him out of the circle tricks, one sticking with the track, and one swishing back and forth, in the wind, if he isnt caught or treed there, when he lines out, i got a smile on my face, cause his butt, should be caught shortly.

[cobalt]

Of the good cat dogs I've had and seen, critical factors in the equation are speed(foot), drive(vigorous pursuit) and track savvy(accuracy). A good cat dog must have at least average speed/drive coupled with the attribute of track savvy. A metaphor of this combination is in car racing. A driver wants to go as fast and aggressively as they can to win, but they can't exceed the point in which they are going so fast they lose control. Keeping it in between the lines keeps them in the race. The best drivers are always going fast and keep control. With dogs that go too fast and lose control, locate(tree) and 'track loss and pickup' are jeopardized. In my opinion the best dogs pick up loses and locate trees the fastest regardless of extreme foot speed. Giving a cat no time is critical to success. Cats rely more on their sneakiness to elude dogs rather than their speed.