New Mexico Bear question

[broncobilly]

By being unmarked, in thier eyes, the hogs then become the property of the state. I know that to many of us this sounds beyond stupid, but it's just another fine example of someone with a little authority run amuck!

I guess there are stupid brand inspectors, just as there are stupid game wardens. If the theory espoused by those inspectors were correct, it would follow that all unbranded cattle belonged to the state. In actual fact, unbranded cattle, unless their parentage can be traced to a branded cow, belong to the man who owns the pasture they are found in. With the NM Legislature classifying hogs as livestock, they fall under the same guidelines.

Bill

[broncobilly]

But the hunting activities fall under game and Fish. Just like the non residents who come and catch jack rabbits to train greyhounds they have to have a non game license.

That would suggest that for me to invite a friend from Tx to bring his cow dogs to help me with some cow work would fall under the game and fish. The difference is that a jack rabbit is legally classified as a native wild animal, and therefore falls under the jurisdiction of the game and fish, while the NM Legislature put the hog under the jurisdiction of the livestock board and since the NM legislature has more authority in NM than the game and fish, any warden who tells you that he has any jurisdiction over your activities while rounding up(hunting) hogs is just trying to blow up your skirt.

So until it's a law you won't stay in the clink very long, unless that is, that the authorities are making up the rules as they go.

Kiel, don’t rule that out completely, they will sure try to make up the rules as they go.

Your best defense against overzealous game wardens, or brand inspectors, is to know the rules better than they do.

Bill.

[Big Mike]

Bill you are correct in NM game and Fish has no authority over hogs nor wants it. The more i think about it, I think your right about feral hogs not falling under the non game species.

Only point i was trying to make was dont use the hog hunting excuse to hunt bears with out a license. Should have worded it better.

[nmplott]

so what about hogs on public land, who do they belong to, and how do you hunt them legally for both residents and non-residents. Also where are the hog population in licoln and otero counties?

[broncobilly]

Mike,

I certainly agree with you about not using hogs as an excuse to try to run bears without a license, and I should have made that clear in my previous post, I apologize for not doing so. I personally do hunt hogs during bear season, and, because some of my hog dogs will trash on a bear, I make sure that I have a bear license in my pocket when doing so. If I were out hog hunting and my dogs trashed on a bear and treed him and a game warden came along, I could not blame him for not believing that I was hunting hogs, so I carry the license to save the hassle. But when I am hunting hogs, and my dogs are running or baying a hog, and a warden comes along, I do not suffer gladly being hassled just because they do not understand the limits of their authority.

My main reason for replying was because I so often encounter those ignorant wardens and I always have to explain the law to them. I was hoping that if more people knew the law and explained it to them maybe they would get the message and I wouldn't have to keep explaining myself.

Bill

[broncobilly]

nmplott,
I misspoke again, instead of saying "belong to the man who owns the pasture they are found in", I should have said that they belong to the man who's feed they are eating. So in the case of public land, the public land lessee, in the paying of the lease, has bought the feed(grass and forage) on that land, therefore, because he owns that grass, he owns the hogs that are eating it. Therefore, to legally hunt hogs on public land, you have to have the permission of the rancher who leases that land.
I know, I know, that land belongs to everybody and nobody wants to ask to hunt on it. Although the land is “public”, the hogs are not according to the letter of the law.

Bill

[nmplott]

Bill,
Thank you for that clarification, what about in national forrests?
Stephen

[broncobilly]

most of the natinal forest are leased to somebody who runs cows on them. As far as "public" land that is not leased, I guess they would belong to whichever government owns the land. I really do not think that the legislature thought it all the way through(some of those guys are really not very smart) when they changed their classification.

Bill

[oswald]

I CALLED THE EMPLOYEES AT THE KIOWA NATIONAL GRASSLANDS ASKING IF THEY HAD HOGS I COULD COME AND HUNT. THEY TOLD ME TO BUY THE OUT OF STATE NON-GAME LISCENSE BUT WERE NOT SURE IF HOGS WERE ON THEIR LAND. OR MAYBE IT WAS THE FISH AND GAME THAT TOLD ME TO BUY IT, BUT NOBODY COULD SAY IF HOGS WERE ON PUBLIC LAND, THEY MUST NOT GET OUT OF THEIR TRUCKS OFTEN.

[Big Mike]

nmplott, you can hunt hogs on national forest anytime of the year you want. There are small pockets of hogs scattered from Pinon to the capitan. Nobody wants to claim them so feel free to thin them out

Bill I thought all unbrand (feral livestock) belong to the state livestock board. I was under the impression this came to a head when they were trying to gather all the wild cattle in the Gila and it was determined the state live stock board had the authority? true? Where is it written that the leasee owns the unbranded (feral) livestock? I would like to read it so I know the correct answer for the future.

[nmplott]

Big Mike,
Thank you, I may have to go down and check it out sometime.
Stephen

[broncobilly]

Bill I thought all unbrand (feral livestock) belong to the state livestock board. I was under the impression this came to a head when they were trying to gather all the wild cattle in the Gila and it was determined the state live stock board had the authority? true? Where is it written that the leasee owns the unbranded (feral) livestock? I would like to read it so I know the correct answer for the future.

Mike,

I don't know where it is written. In fact, I may be mistaken concerning public land. I do not personally utilize any public land so when answering the public land question I based my answers on the experiences of friends instead of my own. I do know of public land ranchers who have legally put their brand on unbranded livestock, but it may have been that they proved, or at least convinced the livestock board of, parentage by branded stock. I had also forgotten about grazing allotments, where multiple livestock owners run their livestock "in common" on public land. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I regret responding at all regarding public land, or at least responding without taking more time to check my sources. nmplott, I apologize for giving you an incorrect response, but Mike has convinced me that I was wrong in my post regarding public land.

Bill