A dog that can be called off of a hot track or in the middle of a race is not a bear dog, or cat dog if that is your game. Cold trailing is a different story.
I don't think Nolte is talking about a dog like this. He is talking about a dog that will do anything to keep hunting and chasing the critter. I too would want these type of dogs.
Nikki is not talking about a dog like was mentioned in the first paragraph either. I have hunted enough with her dad to know that it is the non hunting times she is talking about. Loading a dog and collering it etc.
The dogs they are talking about have tons of desire and brians. Two top traits that you should look for when picking a hound. The more of them the hound has the more the hound is worth. Of course that is just my humble opinion. I also agree with Nolte in that I am looking for dogs that seem to have it naturally so that all of my screw ups are fixed by the dog. Not that it has always worked though, you just can't fix all people.
I would say that good handling is about the last trait that I would consider when buying a dog. I've had to stand beside my truck with a shock stick in my hands just to get the dogs to shutup so I can listen. I can live with that. A few years ago there was a bearhunter up in Maine that was semi famous for his good handling dogs. He could call his dogs out of the box one at a time by name. Now that is pretty cool,I agree. I know 2 guys that hunted with this fellow for almost 2 weeks and they said the guy never once had to use a leash or yell at a dog. Also they never treed a bear in the 2 weeks. Soooooooo , just saying LOL
To put up with dogs that are hard to handle, don't mind or that you can't call off a track is 90% the owners lack of knowledge or willing to take the time to train a dog. It is easy to train a dog to come or to call off a track with the tools that are available today. I can show you packs of bear dogs that can be called off a jump or bay that catch 80 t0 100 bear a year. I have called my dogs off a jumped cat race in minutes. I can walk from a tree and call the dogs they will follow and have done it many times. The manners and handling is training or lack of it has nothing to do with the desire or ability of a dog. It is true that the smarter the dog the easier they are to train. The better trained a dog is means the more enjoyable a hunt can be and the more time there is to hunt. You can teach an old dog new tricks. Dewey
Dewey you are right on! If I couldn't pull my dogs off of a hot track, the story that I told some time back about the guy that was with me, falling off of his horse and getting evacuated by chopper to the hospital, my dogs might still be out there somewhere. While my dogs are still puppies, I teach them to handle. The same way with kids. If you want hell raising, problematic teenagers, that don't have any respect for anything, let them do as they please while they are young and impressionable. There are times that I might over handle my dogs, but they sure as heck know who's in charge.
"What I really need is a system that when I push a button it will shock that dog there, when I push this other button I can shock the other dog over there, and a button that I can push to shock all twenty dogs at the same time!" - Clell Lee
Benny
When in doubt, ask someone that knows, not just claims to know.
Border, I think you and I have a similiar view on things.
cobalt wrote:It is too easy to get dogs to handle. Laziness and ignorance is the only excuse.
I am plenty lazy and ignorant, but I'd really like to be there to see you guys call off 6 dogs on a tight bear bay where it's a constant roar.
I can't hardly find a young dog that's got the right stuff. And you really don't know what sort of package you've got until their full second year of hunting at a mature age. I also can't hardly keep a good dog alive past 7 for a variety of reasons. Hunting dogs have about 700 different ways to croak and they keep finding more ways every day. When you couple those two things together, I have a hard time putting in the time to make a dog handle like is described. I've done it with my lab and even did it with 4 pups about 5 years ago. I don't have a single one of those left, so I decided my time was better well spent doing other things.
I don't know other areas of the states, or heck even other ares of my state of WI. But I do have a decent handle on different guys with dogs round these parts that do quite a bit of game catching. I don't know any of them that put a handle on their dogs to that degree. And most want a dog that has wicked, wicked drive.
So I guess I wouldn't discount a guy if his dog's don't handle like a bird dog, I'd first see what sort of stuff he's bringing to the game registration stations before I formed my opinion.
I work 60 hours a week, and have 3 kids. I don't have time to spend on things like calling out of a bay (which I don't want anyway). If that makes me lazy and ignorant, so be it.
I've always heard if someone is trying to sell you a dog and his main point is "he handles good around the truck" then don't buy him.
I can't call the dogs off a jumped track. The times I had to, I needed a little help from tritronics. At a low setting of course.
That being said when I yell at the dogs to come they had better do it. The reason they don't on a jumped track has a lot to do with they can't hear me when their barking. Dogs should load, unload, know there names, and some essential commands in my opinion. I have bought dogs at a couple years of age that didn't even know their name. I had a guy tell me to "get a hold of that dog before he escapes!" The dog was a good dog but had never been taught any basic commands. It took three months to get him to where he would even come to me when called. Would have been a lot easier to teach at younger age. I don't even know how some one could tolerate hunting a dog like that. If they start an old track and get out there aways and aren't able to keep the track going, how the heck do you get the dog back? Sounds like pure hell to me. My dogs don't know how to do back flips or anything but they will follow what I consider to be essential commands.
Mine know their names and will load. The best hog dogs I have ever been with, I'm talking about catching numbers of hogs, best noses, most heart, and grittiest, were the worst handling dogs that I have ever been around. You better know some hogs are close before you turn them out, because they are going to one SOMEWHERE. These dogs aren't mean, but they don't have any love for people. You catch them at a bay or after they are run down.
I was given a young dog last year that is out of that stock. Looks like he is going to be a nice dog, but still doesn't handle as well as the ones we have raised. If I had to pick one dog to keep it would be him because I like to turn out a dog that will go to a hog. I will give up a little in the convenience department to watch a good dog perform. Hunting in these briar thickets ain't easy anyway.
He will load up and knows his name. I can't call him off any kind of a track though. I try to do my homework before I turn him loose on a track.
I am not discrediting anyone's training ability. Maybe I'm just not that good, but I get a hog bayed occassionally.
Handling and calling six dogs off a bay are two different things to me. I wouldn't expect them to come off, nor would I ask them to. A hot race would be tough, also, to call my dogs off of. I like dogs with the mentality and stubborn nature to want to sneak around me to stay on any track, hot or cold, but I don't ask them to do things that are unreasonable. I don't expect them to act like border collies, but they better not act like coyotes. If my dogs are crossing a road and I am there and think it would be best to pick them up for one reason or another then I expect them to mind. I apologize to those offended by my remark of being lazy and ignorant as an excuse for dogs not minding. The reason for that comment was because I've been around too many houndsmen with dogs that have no handle on them whatsoever and I hate that. I don't want to talk about my dogs, just my opinion, but I will say that by the time my dogs are 8 to 10 months old and having spent 10 minutes to a half hour a WEEK since they were 6 months old, they have enough handle on them to last the rest of their lives. That's what I meant by easy.
Thanks for clarifying. I'm trying to grow a little patience. I used to want them to be a complete dog out of the womb. I been lucky enough to have a couple of dogs that were smart enough to overcome me. No hard feelings, it's nice to hear what each of us expects out of their dogs.
you all have good points but what im asking whats the deai with the price of hounds these day does your dog cost more than mine because you live out west and i live in wv
The price of a hound all depends on how much someone is willing to give. I have never sold a dog. I have bought some nice dogs and been given some nice young dogs. I have given young dogs away that turned into nice dogs.
It's all supply and demand. A product is worth only what somebody will pay for it.
I would dare say that there are very few top notch, once in a lifetime dogs that are sold. I know some are, but I bet more are given away to hunting partners, family, etc. (unless they are sold as puppies) I know of two hog dogs that $7500 were offered for each of them. My Dad owned one of them. He told the man that he had gotten within 100,000 of buying him. Lol. I've never owned one that good, but it would take life-changing money for me to part with a good dog.
At the risk of sounding like an ass I'll bite again. I make the time to spend with my dogs. It got me a divorce already so I know what the second one will be like. She's gone but, I still got my dogs. I do 95% of my hunting walking my ass over the mountains, hills, creeks, and the such. I HATE to lead a dog much less a dog that pulls me down the mountain. I also hate to have trash races. I teach mine basic obedience and break them off trash. Is that time taken away from "hunting"... maybe but, it's time I'm spending with my dogs. The more they come to "trust" and "respect" me the more desire they will have to please ME. The more I "trust" them the more enjoyable my hunt will be because I have a good idea it's not a deer their running. If you want a dog that you have to fight to get off the chain, load and then unload that's great. I'm glad you don't mind. One thing that I've come to see about that type dog is that there is a reason they act like that. They aren't "handled" much and usually that also includes woods time. There is a difference between hyped up and excited and just down right stupid acting. I agree I want my dogs doing back flips when I go get them to go hunting. They know when it's time. I don't want a dog that runs the fence or hides in the dog house and I have to tackle them to get them in the truck. Just because a guy has dogs that mind don't mean they can't hunt. That's just my 2 cents.
Bryar, As far as the prices of hounds here versus back east, I couldn't start to tell you. If you break it down to the different game animals that are hunted, that's a good starting place. Coon dogs seem to be all over the board for prices. I've never understood it. I've known lots of guys that complained about the price of a trained dry ground lion dog. I've seen advertised prices of coon dogs that would blow the price of a lion dog out of the universe. I know a guy that got to where he couldn't catch a bear, so he bought a trained dog. This was about 15 years ago, and he paid $3000.00 for that dog and acted like he had spent his entire retirement savings. He also went back to catching bear. When Dale Lee quit hunting the last time, he turned down $7500.00 for his lead dog Joe. That was probably 28 years ago. I have seen dogs that could catch a lion without the aid of snow go for anywhere from $1500.00 to $15,000.00. Alot of it depends on who is selling, who is buying, and what's available at the time. As for the lion dogs, you can't compare prices, since there isn't a lion season where you live. But if we go back to the coon dogs, I believe all you need is a registered dog with a resume 5 pages thick with a history of winning every night hunt on the planet, and then it won't matter where you live, that dog will cost you!
"What I really need is a system that when I push a button it will shock that dog there, when I push this other button I can shock the other dog over there, and a button that I can push to shock all twenty dogs at the same time!" - Clell Lee
Benny
When in doubt, ask someone that knows, not just claims to know.
