Old fashioned

[CkZona]

Quick question. Who still breeds the old fashioned black and tans. I remember reading a breeder but forgot. Thanks in advance.

[Farmhand]

I have some, and plan to make a cross this fall. Hunting stock and from some show background, but not alot, mostly out of bear dogs.

[CkZona]

Does anyone know. I read a few months ago people suggesting a certain breeder that breeds the old fashioned hunting dogs. Please help

[sheimer]

Ken Duncan

Scott

[Brady Davis]

JMO....Ken breeds awesome hounds but not what I would call "old fashioned" B&T's ....They are much more traditional, normal B&Ts...

[sheimer]

I guess your right. They may not be "old-fashoned" but if you want one to hunt, he's who I would call.

Scott

[craigs]

I remember a guy in What Cher Iowa that use to breed them, but that is all I can remember.

[Farmhand]

OK, guys, let me clear this one up. Old fashioned, long-eared Black & Tans are, for the most part the AKC registered variety, before recent developments in AKC that allowed the UKC type hounds to register with all that FSS baloney. There are some distinctive differences between the two types. Most of the AKC show type hounds are indeed worthless in the woods. However, a few people still bred hunting hounds. It is very important to find these people if you intend to buy a hound for hunting use. Kuester's Limberlost Black and Tans was formerly the place to buy for hunting, but they have gotten advanced in age and no longer breed hounds but sometimes still go for hunts with other guys...we're talking Ed is probably 87 now. Very nice people when I bought my two from them and I still keep in contact with them. The original bloodlines were Maple Hill, St. John, Ten Oaks, and maybe a little bit of Grand Mere. Some Twinlakes has been added over the recent past. Those are the original and pretty much ONLY lines that are true old fashioned bloodlines. Most others go back to Wagner stock somewhere and while Wagner hounds and Duncan's are very nice looking and successful game dogs, they are NOT truly old fashioned Black and Tans, nor are Boatman or Bloodworth, although they have many good qualities. Hope I didn't ruffle any feathers or anything, but that's just the way it is, not knocking any man or his hounds, just wanted to clarify that to a degree. I have done extensive research on these hounds and owned them for about 20 years now.

[blackandtanman32]

Yup thats right farmhand I will definantly agree with that and thier is a lady that I know that still breeds and uses the old fashion black and tans. She has mapple hill, twin oaks, Keuster, she has all the main bloodlines and hunts coons with them. The last time I talked to her she had 13 dogs. Her name is Veronica Terry, she owns and runs Dry creek black and tans. I hope that helps. Jim.

[Farmhand]

Yes, I know Veronica. She raises quite a few. I haven't talked to her in a while, though. There are a few others around the country, but they aren't easy to find and pin down because of the division between hunters and show folk. Very few do both with these type of hounds but I know a couple of people who do.

[michael.magorian]

I'm just trying to understand a little bit better, but when I look at the breed standards for the black and tan on both UKC and AKC, the only real difference I can find is a difference in the heighth. However they both overlap for the most part, it's only a difference of a couple inches. Now, if I'm reading everything right, the only real difference is the bloodlines and a slight variation in size.

[Farmhand]

Length of ear.

[michael.magorian]

I'm really not trying to start an argument, but I think that most black and tans make these standards. The ear length requirement says the ear must touch the tip of the nose, but it says they should wrap around the nose. So if a person goes by the minimum requirement for the AKC standard, then by that standard my black and tan is an old fashion black and tan, and she is from Nightrider bloodlines which are arguably the first modern black and tans.

[Farmhand]

May surprise you, but UKC standard was once even more similar to AKC standard, until breeding for a different type became prevalent, then it evolved into todays standard. I have pics of UKC hounds from the 1930's and they don't look nothin' like what you see today. Standard ain't nearly as important as type.

[michael.magorian]

Could you post some of those pictures for us Farmhand?