Colorado Bear Hunters

[liontracker]

Man, that is the truth. Next time you are rubbing shoulders with Logan and his wife why don't you ask them? I doubt they have changed their opinion, tempered with 30 yrs of their own research, based on that hokey Uncompahgre study. $1,000,000 dollars per year for 10 yrs...that is a lot of money to chase a few cats around. Their are two paths that lead to this tree...corruption/hidden agenda & public education - starting in elementry school. If both are not handled, it will not matter.

[liontracker]

[Mr.pacojack]

[Mr.pacojack]

And by the way, I would guess you would have more of a chance to rub shoulders with Logan and his wife than I. Your just kind of a idiot aren't you?

[liontracker]

I never once said that I did not like you. Just some of the things you say. The feeling is mutual I am sure. But to the point, I am not on here talking to the DOW. I am talking to hound people. I can way more than hold my own in a public debate and make my point in a eloquent, informed and professional manner. But when some fat redneck w/ a badge tells the whole room what he did... well now, I was the only one with the balls to call him on it. His supervisor was there and you can bet he was reprimanded, some right in front of the crowd. The dumbass slammed both hands down on the table, stood up and threw his cowboy hat on the table and was coming to make my day. And why does he still have a job? I sat through that whole meeting and never uttered so much as one word, until Mr. DOW professed his opinion, in all his infinate wisdom and glory. I don't hate the DOW, just their employees that have this anti-hunting agenda. Besides, after the anti-lion hunting battle experience, I am coming to the conclusion that why should anyone help the houndsmen of the state of Colorado, when they can not even help themselves? At these meetings it is pretty standard for only a handfull of houndguys to show up, even when it is a houndsmen/DOW only meeting. We only enjoy our CO lion hunting today because of basically 5 guys. No one can even imagine how much of their own time and money they sacrificed for the benifit of all. How many people ever even so much as thanked them for it? Did anyone ever offer to reimburse them for the money they spent, at least? That year there were 1400 some odd lion tags sold and 374 lions harvested. Where was everyone else?

[reed]

Devin, thanks for clarifying that for me.

Tim, you have a lot of built up energy for sure. I will have to agree with Devin in that the biggest factor here is not the CDOW. The problem is the right ears are not hearing us talk. How many state senators have been contacted, and were they the ones that would listen with an open mind? Ranting and raving on this forum will get nothing done. Or, how about the people in the CDOW that Devin is referring to? I would like to be able to talk them. It sure would be better then saying they are all idiots in an open forum like this.

Again to do something like we are talking about would take a group effort and focused agenda. Like a couple of other people have said already it is not the CDOW's mind or the Anti Hunter's minds, it is the general public that needs to see it that we have a valid point. It sure wouldn’t hurt to have the CDOW supporting us, at the very least not voting against us. We are part of the problem as a well. We can't even get a handful of hounds men at a stinking meeting, to voice some opinions and be heard, when the department has ask for opinions.

As for the vote that outlawed baiting and hound hunting the stats show it was a 2 to 1 margin in favor of no baiting or hounds. Again not all of those people are anti-hunters, they just didn't get to hear why hound hunting is not as bad as it was portrayed. At this point it will have to be a baby steps type of deal. It also will have to be a squeaky clean operation. More than just hound hunters will also have to benefit as well.

As was mentioned earlier about the Utah situation there was a mass of people that did independent research and showed the benefits and debunked the negatives. They asked for a little and got a little. They did a good job with that little then asked for a little more and got a little more. That little more did not go so smoothly and some of it was taken away.

Just like the lion situation here. The anti's wanted to take lion hunting away from us a couple of years ago but we asked them to give us a chance to prove we can make it right. Well it was asked to reduce the number of females taken to 40% or less of the total. That has been a success in most of the state. I know one GMU that it was/is not happening and is about to get a female sub-quota. People will listen and give us a chance if we prove we are worthy. We just have to find the right person that will listen with an open mind. Then we must take advantage of it and not piss it away.

[liontracker]

[reed]

Tim, you can send the name of those 5 guys to me with there numbers and I will call and thank them as well as ask if they want some more help.

[liontracker]

Man I wish I could figure out a way to wirte my thoughts in a manner that can be clearly understood as written, but I can't. But I think if it was read more carefully, it would be more clear. Reed go back and re-read, I do not hate the DOW, only their anti-hunting employees. It's up there in black and white. Further more we did not ask the antis for permission, what happened was the DOW put a bandaid on it for us and it is old and ready to fall off in 2-3 more years when the wheel of fortune for Logan stops spinning. Also a 2:1 margin against is even worse than I remember, (that was 1985 or so) the point is that is was successful, do to the underhanded sneaky way it was written. Also, baby steps are working so well in Irac and Afganistan, let's adopt that protocol in every aspect of our lives. Fact of the matter is, that there are far more lion and bear in this state than there should be. Under sound wildlife management techniques, the excess should be harvested. Maybe the best way would be to instigate a state wide spay/nueter program. I hear Bob Barker has a huge non-profit that will fund it.


It is really very simple....issue more bear tags. Screw trying to get a hound season. It just ain't politically correct. Us houndsmen are an outdated, atiquated social group that the U.S. has no use for or tolerance of...unless of course they are in need of damage control services. Yep, more fall bear tags...the path of least resistance.

Another thing is that I have a real problem with the DOW spending 10 mil $$$ of our hunting dollars on a nut who wants lion hunting outlawed in CO anyway, when the best houndsmen in the areas could provide that info for free. But then again this is the 21st century and that wouldn't be politically correct either, right?

[liontracker]

Reed, it's too late for that. It was 7-8 yrs ago. Besides they are so burnt they do not want to be in this hunt.

[reed]

You know what Tim I would still like to talk to them. They could give some insite into the way they approached it, what was successful and what was unsucessful. What they would do different and such. Even if they don't want to mount the fight they can still contribute.

As for your baby steps comment what do you suggest then? Would you just jump right off of the cliff and hope for the best, maybe catch onto a tree that is haning out of the side of the canyon? There is a major negetive outlook towards houndsmen in this state how do you think it can be fixed? If it can not be fixed how did it get there? Should we publicly slam the some of the people that can actually help us?

I would like to talk to those guys you mentioned. Is one of them Lester Mundy? I have talked some to him before.

[liontracker]

What worked best was to find out who was really in charge, who actually makes the call, then drive from Durango and buy a bunch of $100 dollar lunches as many times as possible. Sit them down in private away from the office and have a captive audience, in nuetral place with no distractions. Yes, Lester was part of the group, he would be able to tell you the best of the best and probably has their phone numbers still. I suggest, that unless you have about $500,000 cash to start with, that you not waste your time on a bear/hound season, just issue multiple tags to fall hunters. I don't think the attitude can be fixed. I believe it started years ago with the disrespectful, redneck, (Don't get me wrong, I love redneck women) beer drinking, trespassing, poaching, slob hunters. It would be ridiculus to slam someone who could help us. On the other hand it would be to our great benefit to purge the antis from the CODOW system before it is too late and the majority of their high level employees become antis.

The point I was making about Mr.DOW, was that he was way out of line. His supervisor reprimanded him right there in front of everyone and said the same. But on the otherhand, When I looked at the man conducting the meeting, I saw he was furious. No one said a word, as usual, so I did and then some. I suppose they will be more careful what they say in public now, but they still think the thought and walk the walk. They need to go before it is too late.

Oh yeh, and 3 yrs later I was cutting track in the high country. I came upon Mr DOW sitting in his truck in the sun, so I drove up to him and asked what he was up to. This is
the only time in 30 yrs of hunting CO that I ever saw a DOW in the woods. I asked what he was up to and he said "oh, I am just up here trying to catch some of them lowlife lion hunters". Well, I was what he was looking for and had a whole truck load of dogs under the rigdeck, ( No IKE wasn't there) but never realized it and I said good day and went a treed a lion. Some of the sharpest tools in the shed for sure. But I suppose after this one, I just earned a 3 yr tail like one of the guys who saved lion hunting got.

[Brady Davis]

[cat and bear]

Ok Some of you thick heads I will repeat, negative, name calling, calling them out, Worrying about who is right, instead of what makes sense and gaining ground, has done nothing but keep you from your goals. To keep lion hunting, and get your bear season back. Again, its politic's 101. Not saying I can do it. But there is guys that can and will, and the rest need to take the negative energy, and form a strong organization. Including money, like i said, we built a cabin, and raffled it. in 30 years, the wbha had 30 grand. In two years we made 270 grand, got the memberships up, and had money. Even hired a lobbiest for madison. Want public respect and recognition, well we give scholorships now, and a lot of other things to the public eye. AGAIN, we did it, and so can you, quit your dam belly aching and do something constructive and positive. GET ORGANIZED Set some GOALS And if that dont work, send you hounds to me, where they will be able to hunt in the future, We fought the war, I didnt say it was easy. I will again say, when your done wineing and want to organize, and focus in a positive fashion to keep your lion, and work on getting your bear hunting back. you may give me a call and I will give suggestions or get you to people which is helping other states, start at ground zero. Boys, open your eyes, your way isnt working I thought you western cowboys was tougher then this A couple of you guys need to step forward, and get started.

[slowandeasy]

cat and bear, you are a hundred percent right three quarters of them are too busy trying to bs everyone, about what big time guides they are. when really if the truth was known the ones that appear to be succesfull at guideing own big companies, have inheratances, or have sued someone and don't need the money from the hounds just the ego trip. and the other poor slobs just picked their egos over their wives, children, and homes and live in their pick-ups. so it's not about the sport, the heritage, or the hounds, and when it's all been taken away by the uneducated voters and our government, they will just move on to the next ego trip. it's not about our egos and if we can't see the writeing on the wall it's because we are blind. jmo