Small Guns

[dubl_t]

Well, one thing we can agree on is the 250-3000 are getting more scarce. At one time not too long ago there were plenty of 30-3000's (just called 3000's?) in the gun stores here but a friend mentioned some kind of wildcatting that was being done with them and they all dried up (or got more expensive).

Mr. Leonard,
I sure enjoy reading what you write. Very articulate, sentences flow, and grammars correct. Not to mention knowledgeable......but I don't think you've EVER posted anything shorter than 10 sentences! (just ribbing ya).

OMG, Mike, I'm sorry...but I just noticed you made the "babble mouth" class regarding # of posts. that's too funny! Again, I'm sorry, this is with all due respect. You do know what you're talking about but this is funny.

[KnowItAll]

Grouse
Oh, i know you your the guy with the 100% broke dogs. I read about you, your famous enough said!

[grouse]

KnowNothing Did you get your feelings hurt? SORRY You want to get playing with the bigdogs jump right in .You joined Sep 17 and have had 5 post (NEGATIVE ONES ) So go ahead and start saying how dumb and what a looser and my dogs are junk runners and i'm a lyer and what ever other negative things you can think of i really don't care what you think because we can all see what great contributions your gonna make to this website .So i'll be your whipping boy so maybe it will keep you occupied enough so somebody can actually talk about something worth talking about without getting called on it .

[KnowItAll]

i might be a no nothing, but knew that you're just an inexperianced pup trying to be one of the big dogs

[grouse]

Boy you got me , how did you know that you must be psychic . Come on can't you do better then that ? Get creative , thats an old one let's here something new .Oh by the way that makes 6 (NEGATIVE ) POSTS lets go for seven .

[sourdough]

Weatherby makes a fine belted magnum in many calibers but personally I wouldn’t own one. The cost alone for reloading is twice that of a standard round special dies and expensive brass for what you gain in ballistics is small in comparison to standard calibers. I don’t know how this subject went to the 257 Weatherby as what was stated above was a comparison to the 257 Roberts a round that was wildcatted and improved upon with the invent of the 25-06. The 22-250 was an improved 250-3000 and no one can deny that savage arms made one of the best lever action rifles ever in the model 99 they are still a very functional and reliable firearm. Winchester came out with their 243 in 1963 after Remington’s failed attempt at a very similar caliber the Remington 244 which would become the 6mm though the 243 and 6mm shoot the same size bullet the 6mm out perform the 243 on the bench. There are few rifles today that shoot a muzzle velocity over 4000 feet per second and the 243 is not a caliber that comes to mind. If your reloads are approaching those types of velocities I would be a bit concerned! I am by no means an expert but feel that the knowledge I do have is at least enough to comment on this topic. Retired you keep that little savage 99 as it has taken a many a beast sense it invent and will continue. It is still a fine small caliber.

sourdough

[retired]

The 250-3000 is one of my all time favorites. I have had numerous rifles in the caliber both stock and custom and loved them all. Remington came out with it in the Model 700 Classic some years back and I had one and kick myself for ever letting a person buy that and the same model in 257 roberts from me. I preferred the 250 to the 257 roberts because with bullets of less than 100 gr. the same velocites could be produced with virtually no pressure difference but the 250 Savage is and was inheritanly more accurate than the less efficient Roberts. At one time the 250-3000 and the 375 H&H were considerred to be several of the most inherently accurate cartidges avaiaible. I carried a Model 99 Savage take down model in the saddle scabbard on my cow pony for many years and no telling how many big mule deer, white tails and proghorns I rolled with this rifle it's magic if you will was nearly always fatal. I even knocked off some bigger critters with it and with a well placed shot it delivered the bacon. Today it is best known as the parent cartridge of the 22-250 but it is too bad some company like Kimber doesn't come out with it in their wonderful little 84 bolt gun. It would be a better rifle and fit then the 257 roberts they re-introduced. I love the roberts but once you stack it up against the 250-3000 with handloads off the bench you will see the superiority of the 250.

Our very own Shorty on this forum who is also on the Pro-Staff of Best of The West the long range tv shooting show is also a big fan of the 250-3000. He also has customized a few into the 250-3000 AI version and they crop numerous white tails and hogs every year on their south Texas ranch. As he says: ( It never fails).



If you ever have the opportunity to pick up the classic book. ( Shots at Whitetail by Larry Koller) , you will see his devotion to the 250-3000 and he proclaimed it the best cartridge avaiaible for hunting the white tail deer. Ofcourse this was before the craze age of big magnum rifles and scoped the size a Packard's muffler.
Still today for guys who hunt instead of just shoot this is a wonderful cartridge a true classic ( the first commercial cartridge to attain 3000 FPS hence the 3000 to it's name.) At one time the world record big horn sheep was taken with this cartridge and as old Jack OConner use to say the man that packs one is in good company and well heeled.

Mike
Went down in the celler and looked in some old boxs of books and found a copy of Lawrence Kollers book and injoyed all that he had to say about the model 99 in 250/3000 cal.The best part of all was that most of the places that he talked about hunting I also had hunted and at one time there was a deer behind every tree there I to thank you again wonder how many know what Packard was

[KnowItAll]

sourdough, let me pick up on the the reins before this gets outa hand. been watching this forum for a long time just as a guest. retired is my wife's granpa, and i was pretty much saying anything to try and get a rise out of him. as you probably noticed. but he don't stir easy. if ya look back at the posts you will see were i told him i was foolin with him. everything was made up as for grouse he always engages his mouth before his brain, probably his hounds are alot like their owner.it's a shame he has to track dog poop into every topic he posts on. oh well just didn't want this to turn into a runaway see ya

[grouse]

No my problem is with every time someone makes a post on this forum instead of the next guy posting his views about it he has to end the post by saying something negative about the guy who made the previous post .And if you look at my post i don't start nothing . I try to be respectfull to the guy unless they start disrespecting me .

[slowandeasy]

KnowItAll , or maybe it should be KnowNothingAt All , if thats what caliber he likes to use and has success with why would it be a piece of crap ?

couldn't help but notice, looks like controversey follows you where ever you go. this looks very positive. try telling the truth it comes out the same everytime.

[Mike Leonard]

Just to let you in on a little secret I was and still am in a way a big 257 Weatherby fan. We call it the 257 Roy for Weatherby founder Roy Weatherby and it was his favorite caliber. I used my Deluxe Mark 5 for some years and made some impressive one shot kills with it at extended ranged although I do not condone extreme long range shooting at game unless conditions and set up are perfect, becasue too many varibles excist out there without the camera man. I draw the line at 500 yards although I smoked a few coyotes and vermin a way further than that with it. I also took some larger game with it including my once in a lifetime Stallion Range Oryx, which is a big animal and one of the toughest to drop on the spot. Mine dropped in it's tracks with a 115 Trophy Bonded thru the shoulders at 297 yards. Problem is as Sourdough said she is expensive to feed and tough on barrels. I didn't like usuing wimp loads so accuracy began to wane a bit at 500 rounds and by a 1000 you couldn't hold her on a piie plate at 100 and that don't cut it for me. So re-barrel and that is ok but it is getting pretty costly these days with premium barrels. My eldest son also shot the barrel out of his Weathermark 5 but he will still say he loved it as he did his Swift which he also shot the barrel out on. Oh well shooting is fun so keep on burning the powder.

The 25-06 is a great caliber and loaded hot it gets closer to the Roy than a lot of paper published crap pretends. With a 26" barrel and and Ackely Improved shoulder you can get very close to the Roy but at the same cost and barrel burn. They just have so much powder behind that little hole they can't get it all burned up but today's ultra slow powders IMR 7858 and such are much better.I have a beautiful custom 25-06 Acley Improves with a stainless Shielen match barrel on a pre-64 Winchester action, and it shoots like gang busters. So why would I when leaving to hunt a trophy pronhorn a week or so ago leave what seems to be the ideal rifle at home and take my battle scarred old Springfield custom plain jane 30-06? ( sort of like the old indian said: any gun good, shootem good. And that old 06 is like an old friend and I shootem good, just ask the antelope. Oops! sorry guess he can't say much any more. LOL!

Comparing the 250-3000 or the Roberts to the Roy is like comparing the 300 Savage to the 30-06 or the 7x57 Mauser to the 7MM Remington Magnum. Just a stretch but as we know the 300 Savage and 7x57 have more than enough to kill game and practical ranges as proven by the railroad cars full of game they have taken over the years not to mention over 1000 African Elephants by WDM ( Karamojo Bell).


Little guns can be a lot of fun and when you get comfortable with them you can do some real work.

Never forget most of the game in the US was nearly wiped out before conservation laws with cap and ball rifles and black powder.

[slowandeasy]

mike, just wondering i have a swift in a 700 clasic. was wondering when your son shot the barrel out was he loading real hot? because i'm trying to load in the middle at the bench, so i can make the booger last. because i like it so much. just wondering.
take care

[ferjr]

mike is 100% correct. those barrel burners are caused from what is known as overbore, this means there is two much case and too big of powder charge to be effectively burned for the diameter of bullet that is being pushed, this causes too much pressure. if you open the bore, by using a bigger diameter bullet and the same case, you effectively reduce the pressure. thus increasing barrel life which in turns means a more effecient round. a 220 swift, 240 weatherby, 257 weatherby, 25-06, 264 win mag, 7mm mag, 30-378 weatherby,and 300 ultra mag are just some examples of overbored cartriges.

[Mike Leonard]

Scott shot that swift out about 10 years ago. He was loading it up. Why not if you want a 22-250 get one the Swift and the Roy make some impressive explosions. As we age and realize that such thing are really much to do about nothing we temper such folly with more common sense. However it is still fun to see a jack rabbit explode and go 20 feet up in the air occasionly! LOL!

Oh by the way don't count the 243 out on the 4000 FPS deal. Check out the new 58 gr. loads by Honrady. Mean! Les Johnson on Predator Qeust has been using them and they are pure death! 243 is a good round and interesting enough it is one of the most popular round in Africa with locals.

[ferjr]

The 243 is a great round, i have killed many deer with one. i havnt seen any loading data on the 58gr vmax yet, but the factory loads from hornady with a 58gr vmax is 3750fps. that is hot! that is what i am getting out of my 223 with a 40gr vmax, and it is very explosive on prairy dogs. i am pretty sure you could handload the 243 with a 58gr bullet and get 4000fps out of it, as long as you are not showing too much signs of pressure. i would love to see how they shot, that has to be an awful short bullet, will it stabilize in a standarded barrelled 243 with a 1-10" twist?