GPS in California

[blong]

Have a question, does anyone know if you can use gps with dogs in california when training. I know you can't use it when hunting, but I was wondering about the rest of the time. I found a good deal on a Garmin and was thinking about picking it up. Not to mention they may let you use gps in the future.

[livetohunt]

From what I get after rereading the law looks like we can't even use them for training but you might want to call fish and game and find out for sure. Also if someone at fish and game says you can make sure to get there name phone number and badge number and keep it on you while out training. In the law it says is prohibited on dogs used for the PURSUIT/take of mammals. I think that they will look at pursuit as training but dont know.

[blong]

yeah, I saw that also about the persuit/take... I emailed fish and game Fri. he is the head biologist for bear and wild pig. He has given me some good info before, but I have not gotten a response yet. Maybe it was a furlogh day...

[Tim Lockwood]

You can not use it while training in CA. You will lose your tag for a season and they will write you up on treeing switches also. Its not worth it.

[livetohunt]

Hey Tim how did you guys end up making out up there after we saw you?

[cmogi10]

So I couldn't even use a GPS on my dog, say, out on a hike on a nice day? What if it's not a hound? What if it is a hound? What is the difference between training and taking advantage of a nice day?

[livetohunt]

I have heard that the bird hunting guys can use them when hunting but dont know for sure. Sounds like to me they are just using this law as a tool to get the hound hunters. The antis think we turn our dogs out then use the tracking collars to drive right to the tree where the bears are. They really have no clue really you should read the info on the hsus site it makes you sick to think that this is the info most of the non hunters see. Use every chance you get to educate the non hunters let them no the facts.

[Tim Lockwood]

I know what your getting at. You have valid points to argue but the dfg wardens are set in their ways and it will be difficult to argue with a kid who went to Berkley and has never hunted a day in there life. Its also tough to argue them when they are taught in their warden school that the biggest poachers are houndsmen.

Basically the law states if you are hunting a mammal while using gps on your dog it is illegal. I know of guys who were not even hunting but they had a hound wearing gps and got into trouble over it.

The problem that I have with this bullshit law is bird hunters can use it but houndsmen can not. Thats discrimination plain and simple. Not to mention this law is un-constitutional. I have the right to protect myself and my property. The hound is my property. Thanks to DFG I had a dog die last year that I had just bought two weeks prior for $4500. She died on a bear hunt after being snake bit because we could not locate her quickly and were unable to get her to a vet in time once she was found. If we had gps on her that dog would still be alive today. THANK YOU DFG.

[radar]

Dam Tim sorry to hear that.But I feel that theres a differance in a dog that fetches and a dog that hunts.Thats why I talked the bs I did when ever I saw a thread on here about adding a bird dog section.

I am one that doesn't agree with it being illegal but I fell pretty lucky with what hunting we have.You guys are right the non-hunters don't have a clue and there is so many of them compared to us, inclueding the people who do hunt. You guys think the deer hunters wouldn't mind having the woods to them selfs come on now. I realy think we should just stay off there minds and just keep doing what we've been doing for years.To get them on our side its just like any thing its a takes piss load of money.
HAHA Maybe we need to just get together and donate to them why not everything we do is humane

[Tim Lockwood]

It justs shows the HSUS true colors even more when I can not protect my hound. You think they would want us to be able to protect our hounds by using gps. Even for the game its better. We can get there sooner, evaluate if its something that we want and decide to take it or let it go. Stop the pack before they get in a hwy or even private land. Its a win win so it doesn't make sense that we can't use them unless the goal is to make all houndsmen illegal by slicing away at us.

[livetohunt]

Radar,
Your entitled to your opinion, but no matter what we do we are far from staying off their minds. If we sit back and keep our mouths shut about the lies they are spreading all we will do is fade into the night just as they want. It does not take one cent to keep the nonhunting public educated about the facts. Every time some kid walks up to your box and see's your dogs there is your chance. Every time your filling your gas tank and the guy next to you asked what do you do with them dogs theres your chance. I'm not ashamed that I hunt hounds, I use every chance to educate nonhunters and other hunters. I offer to take guys hunting all the time, guys that have never hunted, guys that have only deer hunted. I run into deer hunters all the time in the woods I stop and talk with them, let them know if they would like to take a bear I would be more then happy to help them. I have had more nonhound hunters help find dogs, help pack out bears, help with broken down rigs. We (all sportsmen) must work together, its not us and them, it us sportsmen the antis are after. Sportsmen can stop the antis we have the money we have the numbers we have the power what we dont have is unity.

[blong]

I agree with livetohunt, there is no way to stay out of there minds, thats like speeders staying out of the minds of chp, not going to happen. Thanks for all the info.

[radar]

I agree with livetohunt too.We should talk to every one we can and diffinitly fight to keep the title houndsmen as good as we can...

[RIFLEMAN]

Tim,

The problem that I have with this bullshit law is bird hunters can use it but houndsmen can not. Thats discrimination plain and simple.

Yes, the law is unfair and illogical; why is the very type of dog where the use of GPS is needed most the one type of dog that is denied its use! However, this is a weak argument; DFG is allowed to make distinctions in regulation and statute according to what is appropriate to provide for the welfare of the resource. The prohibition against GPS with hounds is no more legally discriminatory than it is to limit deer hunters to one dog or hog hunters to three dogs, while allowing an unlimited number of dogs for the pursuit of bear, cat, coon, fox, and coyote.

Not to mention this law is un-constitutional. I have the right to protect myself and my property. The hound is my property.

You're getting warmer! We might have a legal standing here in that it could be argued that the prohibition of GPS violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. There have been many occasions where the Court has given wide latitude to the intent of this language, and it's possible, though remotely so, that we might be able to provide some compelling and persuasive argument that we are being denied the ability to protect our property as effectively as a pet owner, stock dog owner, or bird dog owner can. It's a stretch, but possible.

Thanks to DFG I had a dog die last year that I had just bought two weeks prior for $4500. She died on a bear hunt after being snake bit because we could not locate her quickly and were unable to get her to a vet in time once she was found. If we had gps on her that dog would still be alive today. THANK YOU DFG.

Trust me when I tell you that I feel your pain. In December 4, 2007 at 7:07PM, I lost one of my favorite dogs of all time simply because I misinterpreted what the telemetry was telling me and he was hit by a car at the very spot I was parked at not ten minutes before...losing him was what put the fire in me to work with DFG to have the legalization of GPS included in the bear hunting proposals, and while the GPS proposal was sunk earlier this year when all of the bear hunting proposals were formally pulled from consideration at the Department's request, I will not stop until it is legalized. However, I do want to exhaust all possible avenues with DFG and the Commission before considering any alternatives. This last year, we had the support of both the Wildlife and Enforcement Branches of DFG, so I am hopeful that we will again be able to muster some momentum in time for the 2011 regulatory cycle.

[RIFLEMAN]

livetohunt,

I applaud you for having that attitude. I am approached regularly at the gas station or restaurant by people wanting to pet the dogs, ask questions about them, or take their picture, and I am all to eager to accommodate them. During the conversation, however short it may be, I make sure to give my sales pitch about hound hunting being entirely natural (the ancestor of the game was running from the ancestor of the hound and their relationship has evolved over time) and the only form of catch and release hunting (in that the emphasis is on the dogs and the majority of houndsmen release the majority of the game they tree alive and unharmed. I find that most of these people are pleasantly surprised to hear these facts about hound hunting, and it is my hope that this small opportunity at education, and the fact that my dogs were friendly and I was not an ignorant, greasy, uneducated slob will allow them to see through whatever lies and spin that the anti's show in a 30-second commercial petitioning for the banning of hound hunting.

Folks, we must all be ambassadors of our sport if it is to survive. Being reclusive and introverted isn't going to cut it anymore, and keeping to yourself or "minding your own business" is short-sighted at best and selfish at worst.