Jeff Allen pups question

[cox]

Has anyone used any of these Jeff Allen dogs in michigan or wisconsin areas? I read alot of good things about these dogs and am considering trying to get one but most of them seem to be out west, I'm just wondering how they do in the wet nasty swamps we run in around here. The only reason I'm asking is my friend got a dog from Arizona tha ran real well out there but seems to struggle in the climate we have here running bear and bobcat. any info would be helpful thanks for reading.

[houndnem]

my theory is that if you want a dog that will do well in your conditions buy one that is raised and hunted there. I would not come to michigan to get a western dryground lionhound. I would go to the western dryground guys and get one. I have seen dogs that would put up game like crazy in idaho that couldn't catch a cold down here.(just an example). I certainly don't want to discourage you from buying from jeff because his dogs are exellent, but find out if anyone else has done it with great success before you do. that is just my opinion, I may be way wrong. I have never hunted dogs back east.

[bob baldwin jr]

Houndsman : Same thing up here in maine . I've seen to many of the WESTERN Hounds that STRUGGLED in the Swamps . Not saying ALL have but a goodly %

[cox]

Thanks for the input thats why I raised the question

[cat and bear]

Iagree with the guys opinions, buy dogs that are bred for your area, WI or MI dogs can go east very easily, from NC, to Maine and do well. The criteria of a dog is different then the western folks, need there. LOL

[cobalt]

My opinion on this is different. I know of many dogs from the Eastern US that do great all over the west. I know dogs from the SW US that do great in No. midwest. I know dogs from Texas doing great in NW US. I know of several dogs from Idaho that kick ass in the driest parts of the SW. I also know dogs that are from the Southwest that do crappy in the Southwest! I don't think dogs are necessarily climate and geographically specific to any one area. I think where a pup is born is less important than where it grows up. I do think a dog who is hunted in one area of the world will have problems relocating to a different climate and geography. Good prospects do good wherever you find them. I think the type of dog eg: build, track style, locate, speed, foot toughness, nose and other genetic factors are of much more concern in buying a pup than where they come from and there is always a risk in buying any puppy.

[Brady Davis]

I 100% agree with Cobalt. One of the BEST lion dogs I ever had was a dog I bought when she was 7 from the DEEP SOUTH...I brought her to UT, she had never seen a cat and she was a lion treein SOB...ANd we hunted rough country and deep snow...nothing she'd ever seen.

[dwalton]

A good dog is a good dog no matter where it comes from. True some dogs are suited for your area more so than another areas. Some type of dogs do better on different game and people see dogs differently. If you look far enough back they all came from across the water as most of us have other than the ones that are native Americans. I try all kinds of dogs always looking for something better. It is hard to find ones better than what I have for what I do. It does not mean some are better or worst. They are just what they are and it is up to you to get the best out of what you have. There is always a better dog and a better hunter if you just look long enough. Some times you don't have to look far if you can see what you are looking at with a open mind. If you like it and catch game hunt it. If you are open to something new you might hunt with someone else, that means go and watch and not take your dogs you might learn something. Dewey

[radar]

another good one cobalt!!!and dewey you always have some good info, but everthing said so far has been dam good info!!!

[12-GAUGE]

I totally agree with Cobalt in this one.

[cat and bear]

My opinion on this is different. I know of many dogs from the Eastern US that do great all over the west. I know dogs from the SW US that do great in No. midwest. I know dogs from Texas doing great in NW US. I know of several dogs from Idaho that kick ass in the driest parts of the SW. I also know dogs that are from the Southwest that do crappy in the Southwest! I don't think dogs are necessarily climate and geographically specific to any one area. I think where a pup is born is less important than where it grows up. I do think a dog who is hunted in one area of the world will have problems relocating to a different climate and geography. Good prospects do good wherever you find them. I think the type of dog eg: build, track style, locate, speed, foot toughness, nose and other genetic factors are of much more concern in buying a pup than where they come from and there is always a risk in buying any puppy.

Cobalt, great answer, If your hunting lions or even bobs, I agree with you. Bear dogs are a different deal, when i had given my two cents, it was refering to bear, you guys speaking of lion dogs Big difference, on where the dogs come from, genetic traits, and what works, in the swamps from here east, I also believe the nw dogs, along the coast, my be similiar to ours?

[cobalt]

I was talking bear dogs in particular. I've bought dogs from Dave Dean in Mi. and they have done well all over the northwest and I have sold many dogs of all kinds to guys in Wi. who are long time bear hunters that I've received many "thankyou's" for. Bear dogs in my opinion have the easiest transition to different parts of the country than other dogs. How is a dog bred for an area? That makes no sense to me. If it is swamps or whatever, most good dogs can swim if they are exposed to water young, most good dogs can get through the rocks if they are exposed to it early, most good dogs can get through a 10 acre, 10 ft tall blackberry patch if they've been exposed to it and on and on and on. I learned a long time ago not to have prejudices against any color of dog or any dog from different parts of the country because even if my dogs from Id. won't do well in Maine, my next door neighbor's might do great and if a hunter from Maine said dogs from Id. can't do it in Maine based on his experience with just my dogs, then he is an ignorant fool.

[blackpaws]

Has anyone used any of these Jeff Allen dogs in michigan or wisconsin areas?

i recently switched pretty much my whole pack over to dogs that came from Jeff or out of his dogs. i don't have the best dogs in the world but i like them and they work well for me. i hunt in mainly swamps with standing water. it's a waterfowl bird refuge if that means anything and they do just fine. just have to give them swimming lessons. there is a lot of thick cover here as well. haven't had one quit on me yet. they seem to be able to handle the cold trails just as good as our other dogs from here. not saying they are better, but i had some good chases by myself during training season and it took some cold trailing to get them going. i haven't tried them on bobcats here much. i have 3 dogs directly from Jeff out of his old strain and 1 from another guy but Jeff's Tucker dog is the sire. 1 of those 3 is a pup about 6 months old and she has been trailing and treeing my house cat out in the middle of 40 acres since she was 4 months old. they start early and want to hunt. the thing i like about them a lot is the ones that i have are small compact dogs. they handle the heat well during the summer and you don't throw your back out loading them in the truck. If you want to ask me anymore questions about my short experience with them give me a call. 1-715-566-0153

joe

[Nolte]

How is a dog bred for an area? That makes no sense to me.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I think a good dog is a good dog no matter where you go. Now a great dog in one area might not be great in another, but you won't know until you put them down.

I don't know if a dog is bred for an "area" but guys value certain traits in certain areas more than others. Then they seem to breed for those traits. In big swamp county some guys like dogs that will follow other dogs even if they can't smell a thing, so once they start cranking they know the game is on and the dog is in there. If you put 6 independent track dogs you might have them go 6 different directions. Some guys want dogs that honor well into a chase while others just want one who will work the track it's on. It all just depends.

I've said this numerous times, but a guy can't simply call a bear race the same no matter where or what conditions it's in. The only thing the same is it's a bear. Now a guy should breed for dogs that have whatever traits they need to be successfull.

[cox]

I appreciate all the input from everyone thanks for all the replies