Lions are not Territorial!!

mpritchard · Post by **mpritchard** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:44 pm

Now that I have your attention, here is my question for you guys that lion hunt all the time.

If lions are so territorial, why do you find concentrations of sign? :?:

In the Tom Up thread, Spanky says he ran 2 lions in one day. Sound like there were 2 lions sharing territory! :!:

I saw 4 different trax made within a mile of each other on Sat while I was out cruising around in the woods. I would say that there were 4 lions sharing territory!!

I been pondering this question for years. Aside from the obvious answers, I think it boils down to them lions being less territorial than they say.

Grzyadms4x4 · Post by **Grzyadms4x4** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:34 pm

mpritchard, for starters I don't know jack, but the first thing I thought of was that maybe there was a cat in heat causing the lions to be in a concentrated area or possibly a large deer yard? All I know is I would like to run into 4 sets of tracks in one day!

Budd Denny · Post by **Budd Denny** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:51 pm

I used to think the same was for bobcat, but I have trapped or ran with hounds 3 or 4 mature toms out of one location, in fact I caught a 37 pound tom one day and the very next day caught a 39 pounder in the same trap.
Don't know why it would be any different with the big cats.

houndcrazyfool · Post by **houndcrazyfool** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:07 pm

teratorial doesnt mean that their is only one lion in the area... it just means they are very dominant oriented. Mostly the males. The one big tom in that area will def fight and try'n kill any other dominant toms but eat wont kill the ass he is tryin to get. Lions dont have a breeding season so the toms are also out cruisin for the female that is ready to be bred. Much like people in a bar...

"dont beat the women you want to screw"[quote][/quote]

Hunt 365 · Post by **Hunt 365** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:23 pm

Lions are territorial.

Here are a few things I have learned over the years.

First: Females lions usually stay and live within a 20 mile radius of place of birth.

Second: Females lions over the age of 2 will have young 90% of the time. This why treeing females "NOT KILLING" is so important. If a female is killed over the age of 2, there is a good chance she has kittens.

Third: A female with a couple of 10 month old sub adults can make a lot of tracks and make it appear as if there are lions under every rock.

Fourth: Tom lions do have large area they call home. I have seen many young (1-3 year old) tom lions killed by adult toms. I just saw a few weeks ago where a 3 year old tom, maybe 130-140 lb cat was killed by a large tom.

Fifth: If you want a healthy lion population in your area kill the old large toms and save the females. If you can keep the old boys out this will make territories smaller so more younger toms can survive.

JMO

Tim Cook · Post by **Tim Cook** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:25 pm

I have caught three differant lions, three differant races, in three differant trees in one day all within two miles as the crow flys of each other, all were mature cats. I also have a friend who hunts for F&W and many times they'll go out to change batteries on a lions collar, they will be very close to the critter so they'll freecast some dogs to tree this one certain lion and tree a total differant cat. There has been times were they were radio tracking an adult female and treed a totaly differant adult female and vice versa with toms. This is Oregon and are lion population is out of controll, That might have somthing to do with it!

larry · Post by **larry** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:58 pm

4 tracks within a mile is probably the same cat or a female with a couple kittens that are about ready to be kicked off. Don't know what the lion pop. is like where you are, but that's usually the way it is here.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:01 pm

Generally a large mature Tom will not tolerate another tom moving into his area. Most toms will work an area but it may take him several days to work that area whether he is searching for food or a female. If he finds a female that has young he is gonna do what he can to kill off the young to bring her back in. If he finds another male he will do what he can to run him off.

Females do have over lapping areas. Any will share her area with her off spring for a period of time before running them off. One thing we are finding more and more of this year and I believe it is due to the wolves is the lions are starting to pack up in a sence. No different then a pride of lions.

I'm not trying to say that all lions are gonna start running in packs but we have treed females with mature off spring this year, not 60-70 pound juvies. Hard to say but it appears thats what they are doing.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:38 pm

............

WAcoyotehunter · Post by **WAcoyotehunter** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:52 pm

I have a picture from a friend of four lions in a tree- they killed a tom and at least two of the others were toms. I suspect it has to do with the time of year and amount of prey.

Hunt 365 · Post by **Hunt 365** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:45 pm

I would bet that all three where sub adult toms.

From Spanky
If he finds a female that has young he is gonna do what he can to kill off the young to bring her back in.

I have to disagree. I have seen and read years of studies done on mountain lions. There is little evidence of Mountain Lions acting like the African Lion and kill the young. Think about it. The mother lion has to hunt and walk long distances for food. Because of this the baby is left alone the majority of its first three months. This is a perfect time for toms to kill the young and therefore there would be no young and no mountain lion.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:31 am

............

TRACKER · Post by **TRACKER** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:32 am

Cougars have different territories in summer & winter. Where I hunt I have found multiple cats on 1 road, even 2 or three Toms in 1 draw in winter. That same road shows no sign of cats in summer. Also if your around natural boundries like rivers draws ect... that might be a place where multiple cats territories intersect. I ran a cat 2 weeks ago into an elk kill & there was 2 females both with kittens and a 7 ft Tom all eating off it. The Tom ran up into some ledges and there I could see all those cats had been moving between the kill and the ledges. So I dont beleive a Tom just kills all kittens. Maybe cause they are his. I have seen this a lot in winter and very rarely see adults together in summer.

Budd Denny · Post by **Budd Denny** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:46 am

I have no experience with lions so maybe one of you fellas can tell me, has anyone ever seen where a lion has cannibalized another lion. I have on three occasions had bobcat eat another bobcat I had in a snare. Also a freind of mine had a ma cat in a 220 conibear and her kittens ate on her.

Spanky · Post by **Spanky** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:35 am

Yes Budd we have seen it and on more then one occasion. Maybe its just a Montana and African thing :roll:

We have also treed females that have gone on a walk about alone that lead the hounds right back to the kits (lord knows what the hell she was thinkning).

Fortunate for the kits we stayed close to the hounds with the snowcats and were able to keep the hounds off the kits that were stashed under a spruce not 20 yards away. The race started over 2 miles from the tree we finished at :roll: