so when you are beat by a cat is this what you tell everyone and they believe it well got some bears here who do the same how about a the ole switcha roo houdini start runnin a 200lb cross a few dirt roads see the tracks bear two hours later a 80 lb er incredible srinkin bears or a houdini i call it over runnin a turn then huntin up a new track but im not right often
I am rarely beaten by a cat. Sometimes they get away, usually in the rocks or bluffs. The times I have seen that the dogs can not smell a cat that they should be able to is when it has been scared by a pickup or by someone. I don't know what the cat did I just see how the dogs respond. I try to never make excuses for me or my dogs or make up stories as to what is or has happen. When you do that you stop learning and go backwards. Dewey
I do not claim to be a scientist or the best hunter in the world but I have studied scent and the science of it. I run a police tracking hound and in my business we rely on scent and track lines to lead us to our target. Scent is made up of skin cells (rafts), hair particles, body fluids, and some other components. The theory that a lion can hold its scent does not hold water due to the fact that the lion can not stop skin cells, hair particles, and the like from falling off of its body. So the weather, temperature, humidity, and other environmental factors may play a huge role in how long the scent will last and its potency but I don't buy the theory of the lion holding its scent. I hope I didn't offend anyone just thought I would share what little knowledge I have.
Tracker: I have read every thing that I can find on scent and I agree with you that it is impossible for animals to with hold there scent. But on bobcat I have seen what appears that the dogs can not smell a cat on several occasion that has been frighten. I don't know any other way to explain what happen. I have walked the dogs down the track and in 50 to 500 yards the dogs open and leave on a jumped track where there was no indication that there was a cat any where in the area at the place the cat was frighten. I don't have a clue what was going on just what I saw. Dewey
Perhaps the scent is not turned off like a valve, but rather the cat modifies it's behavior, resulting in a different deposition pattern.
This could range from the simple, such as doubling back or taking a sudden turn, to very subtle changes in how it touches the ground, whether it touches bushes anymore, etc. A sudden change in how the scent is laid down could throw off a dog following a pattern.
I'm very skeptical of the idea of a physiological mechanism, and favor a behavioral explanation.
This was an interesting topic, I'm more than willing to learn more.
Time might be playing a big role in this too. Example, I saw a bobcat cross the trail up ahead and expected the dogs to take off when we got there... nothing. So we just go on down the trail and on the way back they take off and tree?!? Only thing I can think of is the scent had not drifted up or spread out yet? It was around 30 mins later...
In the 27 years I have been running lions I have seen this total disappearence of scent 3 times. I have to agree with dwalton. Each time the lion has bumped right into us as we were coming up the trail and they had a very startled look on their face. From that point on the dogs could not smell that track. I do not believe that they hold their scent. I do believe that the adrenalin rush caused by the panic of seeing a human caused them to smell different some how. Like when a dog gets really scared and gives off that musky odor. The dogs at that point think that it is not the same track. That is my 2 cents worth but I have never been accused of being real smart.
I don't think you can use panic as a gauge for an animal "holding" their scent. If that was the case when your hounds get to the jump that would be it. There are a lot of factors that take place when you see an animal cross the road in front of you one the hounds have been in the dog box sucking in road dust and other particle given off by everyone else in the box I believe it takes a hound a few minutes to clear their nose. Having a track just vanish while trailing can happen but for reasons other than the animal held it's scent. I caught a tom lion a few years back that was trailed and lost by two different houndsmen that I would vouch for as some of the top. I trailed that same old tom and the same thing happened to me as happened to them the dogs got in a big loose on a good track I spent 45min to an hour trying to get them through it, making a big circle looking for a track leaving out of there I just happened to look back up the hill at the right time and there near the top of a big tree set that lion Now you could say that none of us have good locators but, that's not the case I believe that old tom just jumped up there the minute he heard the hounds start his track as it was never a jumped and running race. There are a ton of factors and a ton of stories I am one that does not believe in ghosts.
So along these same lines, am I the only one that has seen where a female lion just flat didn't seem to leave ANY scent?
"What I really need is a system that when I push a button it will shock that dog there, when I push this other button I can shock the other dog over there, and a button that I can push to shock all twenty dogs at the same time!" - Clell Lee
Benny
When in doubt, ask someone that knows, not just claims to know.
Ofcourse this old topic has ben thrown around for a long time and will for as long as guys keep running lions.
Benny on them females I have seen it and I can't explain it. Your dogs trailing along steady but not fast all of a sudden no real change in soil or conditions they can't smell it anymore. You go look and it seems like the lion is starting to circle or even cut back at times. Well you know you are not close enough to the lion to make it go into a evasive tactics mode so you figure she must have spotted some prey and has gone from traveling mode to stalking and hunting mode. You work thru it and if she was unsuccessful in her hunt you may pick it up again in travel mode and move on or if she did make a kill you will have a dead spot and then usually a jump race and
I will tell you that smaller female lions just domn't leave a whole lot of scent anyway and if you are in tough sandy clay soil or soil that is hard to see a track you are in trouble. If they ever get hound smart after being caught a few times they can be next to impossible to catch in that bad country. I would put a spoiled running female lion in dry conditions right at the top of the hard to tree list. they can make for some long hard days and a lot of cussing. LOL!
I watched an aquaintance's hounds which were all proven dogs from dirt lions in nevada and utah to snow all around wyoming blow up on a young tom track and when they caught up to the cat he was laying in the top of a little skeleton cedar tree not ten feet from the only trail going through a big rock slide and not a single hound could figure out where the track went. They all had went silient and were searching everywhere trying to find the track and we actually watched a young black & tan/walker cross check the base of the tree the cat was in. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. We called the dogs and threw a rock at the cat to get it out of the tree at which point the dogs saw it bail and caught it again in a very short race. I can't explain why things like that happen even to very well trained hounds but I've also watched my dogs walk downwind of very young elk calves and not know they were there, and my trashy old female wasn't just being a good dog, she would have chased it or atleast checked it out if she had smelled them. It may be similar to how some species of young animals keep from being detected by predators. I obviously don't know how or why these things happen this is JMO.
Well Chance, I can only speak for myself, and my dogs. But out of the 2 or 3 lions that my dogs have ever gotten slowed up, there seemed to be a high percentage of crippled (2 1/2 legged ones), deaf, and to SOME extent, blind lions. So that just might qualify as the dumb ones! But then again, my dogs prefer coyotes and javalina!
"What I really need is a system that when I push a button it will shock that dog there, when I push this other button I can shock the other dog over there, and a button that I can push to shock all twenty dogs at the same time!" - Clell Lee
Benny
When in doubt, ask someone that knows, not just claims to know.
Some females are double tough to catch. Even a jumped female can school a pack of hounds on a empty stomach on bare ground. If you haven't had your a$$ kicked by a female then you haven't been on to many races. Again I don't buy in to the fact that they can "hold their scent" I just think there are a ton of factors that take place with those scent molecules that we will never figure out as well as human error. I could right a book on what I think happened on a particular race but, I don't deal in speculation just the facts, Sh-T happens even with the best SOB's hell I have cold trailed tracks in the dirt that I could see I was going the right direction and hours later end up on the back track I wouldn't have know if I hadn't been there to see what happened SH-T happens!
well got some bears here who do the same 
how about a the ole switcha roo houdini start runnin a 200lb cross a few dirt roads see the tracks bear two hours later a 80 lb er incredible srinkin bears or a houdini 
