34% female harvest

[Orion Guide]

OHHHH I think you can do your best personally to try not to kill to many sows but in the end they gonna get killed. Wether by cars, hunters, gov't hunters or houndsman, they gonna get killed. I think if ya take a personal responsibility to not kill a sow when in a tree then you give a few more for the following year. But as I said before, when someone that hunts without hounds shoots a bear at 200 yards, there is no way to make sure. In Arizona we been killing alot of boars. Haven't even heard of a sow killed in my area. Talked to the warden and he said he has only checked in boars.

Hopefully the balance stays somewhat managable no matter what state. Is all we can do is "Our Part"!

[Bearkiller]

Why? Cause guys that can't seem to get a bear in a tree finally get a popup and she gets poped off, that's why. It's called "we better kill this one cause who knows if we are going to get another chance".



34% is pathetic.

You know, thats exactly the case. But it's better than having these huge crews of hound rigs running every inch of the mountain with 100 dogs and making everyone look bad. I've seen literally 15 trucks, all hunting together. They must have had 100 dogs between them all. We then drove past their camp where they had another 100 or so dogs chained up. Barking their asses off. The point is this. When joe public sees this it makes us all look bad. It's exactly why there is a draw for summer pursuit on some units now. I'd rather see some new guy, who catches a couple bears a year, hunt by himself and shoot a sow. As for me. I'll be living in Alaska before the next bear season in Utah so I don't care what you guys do anymore. The hunting here isn't very good for any species except coyotes. There are way to many hunters and not enough good environment. Also, the idea that a sow is somehow easier to tree than a boar shows a lack of maturity as a houndsman. Some of the roughest bears I've ran dogs on have been sows and some of the easiest bears to tree have been big boars. People from this state tend to be narrow minded about change. Not all change is bad. I can assure you that the DWR isn't happy with the current system. That means that change IS coming. So you can sit around with your heads in the sand or you can try to influence the change to benefit you. It seems a little less than ironic that the depredation numbers are almost identical to the sportsmans numbers. Based on percentages. 33-34%. I also know for a fact that when sows are being a problem that they try to relocate them. Boars get killed. Again, I don't really have a dog in this fight since I am moving so good luck in getting DWR to leave it how it is.

[houndnem]

yard dog. i believe you are on to something with the goverment hunters. anybody know how to find out how many they took out of the state. i heardd some numbers in my area and it sounded kind if scary? i would almost bet they are as much of a problem or more than unethical hunters. i could be wrong but the bits and pieces i have heard on areas they trapped numbers seem to be high. one area in paticular i know of a couple years ago they had a bear comind in to some cabins by the time they left they had almost every bear in the area trapped. cant remember the exact number but seems like at least five. this area used to be a friend of mines favorite area but is yet to bounce back with bears. i have heard stories of other areas where one bear starts a problem and several gets taken out. seems like it is to bad that the state does not control what thier hunters are taking out of an area. it is not fair to tax paying hunters if the goverment is killing our bears before hunters get the chance.

the dwr dispatched 11 on my favorite mountain two years ago! My question is why can't they put together a list of people that didn't draw tags and call them when they get a "problem bear? I know of a monster boar that just got killed and left lay by a gov't hunter, why couldn't a sportsman have paid money to kill it instead? this is off the subject,I guess the point is they're killin the sh*t out of them. I just wish somebody would get some satisfaction out of it besides the people who hate bears.
the other thing is the "problem bear" issue. we had two different bears come into our property this summer. they only stayed a couple days and then they were gone. I don't think every bear that comes around eatin your trash is a problem bear.

[bad moon]

bearkiller,
congrats on the move i have always wanted to see alaska and regreat all the time turning down a good job offer i had there once. i really agree with your thought on change i am not personally aware of how the dwr feels about our current plan all i can do is base my opinion on hear say and my personal gut feelings as to what is true and what is not. i do know one thing is for sure life is full of change and it is up to you to make sure you do everything to keep the changes for the best.

houndnem,
i agree with your idea of at least letting some one benifit from the bear. i like the idea of relocating them to more desolate area better. the idea of putting pressure on them has crossed my mind. say there is a problem bear, instead of putting him down what would happen if a houndsmen was called in to run it out of the area? ya he may be back tomorrow but do it again and after a few times i would think he would find a new hang out but maybe i am wrong. not sure how it could be worked out but if houndsmen were able to sign up on a turn sheet to be on call in an area? then again the more i think it through the more of a mess it sounds like. id sure hate to be the guy to show up have something go south when old trusty decides to break the rules and trash in the presence of a fish cop

[Deer Slayer]

Just wanted to throw some interesting stuff in. Here in Pa we just lost a sow that was to be 27 years old this winter she has not had a cub in the last 10 years. We also harvisted a male, wight was over 800 lbs he ate crap from man is hole life. On the lines of over harvesting the cub dens Ive been on have a 30% servival rate and it takes 2 years for a femal to reproduce here. We had a hunting gang that in five days of archary season killed 7 and three days of gun season killed 20 equiling 27 bears in eight days,baiting is not aloud here and neather are dogs but the avg of 35 man drives did one he-- of a job for this crew. They killed a lot of sows and cubs this year. Time will tell for the years to come as bear populations go but just wanted to share that with other bear guys.

[Bplott]

1million people go to yellowstone national park every year to try and see a bear...but yet here in utah a bear shows up in a camp ground and its a problem or a treat....WTF...obviously the people are the problem....The major problems that we have are the wildlife board( there clueless how to manage wildlife), SFW (false information,statisics and big money paid to DWR) and last but not least unethical houndsmen....

[Yard Dog]

People from this state tend to be narrow minded about change.

I have no problem with "change". Just seems to me that everytime the DWR changes something we end up on the short end of the stick. Have no problem with closures on hunting units that have been overharvested and such, but latley every time the DWR changes something we end up paying more, loosing days in the field or loosing hunting opportunitys. I know some things have been brought on by actions of a few but can anybody name me a change that the DWR has implimented in the last 10 years that has made things better than they have been? I will say it again, within 15 years we will be just like Colorado.....

[Bplott]

[quote="Yard Dog I will say it again, within 15 years we will be just like Colorado.....[/quote]

No i dont think we will ever be like colorado....they have deer, elk, bear, and lion....the way utahs going we will be huntn dinasuars again!!!!!!

[Yard Dog]

Yep......just not with dogs......

[Bplott]

Cant wait to dump the ol plotts on a smoken hot T-rex track!!!

[BigGameHunter]

Also, the idea that a sow is somehow easier to tree than a boar shows a lack of maturity as a houndsman.

LOL!!! That is some funny chit!

Too bad you completely MISSED THE POINT!!!

[Bearkiller]

BGH, if I missed the point then I guess that's on me. My thoughts are that there are a larger percentage of boars taken by houndsmen and a larger number of sows and small bears taken by bait and boot hunters. At least that's been my experience. I just think going to a RAC meeting and implying that houndsmen are somehow responsible for a 34% female harvest is a bad idea. Even if, theoretically, they are. I'd be interested in seeing what the male/female ratio is in every state.


Neff, you should go to the RAC meeting and stomp your feet and maybe even jump up and down a little and tell them you don't want them to mess with it. I'll bet they'll listen.

Houndnem, they try to get people who didn't fill their tags on the last hunt to kill the bears if at all possible. I know it for a fact.

I also know that alot of these problem bears aren't just wandering through camp grounds. I've seen bear prints on picnic tables. Bear tracks on the sides of tents where children were sleeping. Bear tracks on the sides of campers. Coolers ripped apart.

You guys need to come up with a comprehensive plan that could benefit houndsmen AND the DWR. How about allowing baits and running dogs off of them during the spring and summer. Done right, this could help 2 fold. Help feed the bears and keep them out of camp grounds. It would also help cut down on hound related traffic especially around camp grounds and such. The DWR likes to use other states as models. This is done in Idaho with success. A female sub quota would help with alot of concerns. I personally think one or 2 ideas, carefully thought out and presented would go alot farther than having 80 houndsmen at the RAC meeting stomping their feet and whining that we don't want change. Last year in Vernal the place was packed. They even had to open another room for all of the hound guys. The problem is that there weren't enough RAC members to have a quorum and therefore none of the ideas meant anything. Again, this is going to have little to no bearing on me personally so maybe I should be ignored.

[Bplott]

How about allowing baits and running dogs off of them during the spring and summer. Done right, this could help 2 fold. Help feed the bears and keep them out of camp grounds.


NO WAY!!! No how a fed bear ends up a dead bear....This could work in a non populated area but we have way to many people in the mtns all the time!!! People not being pigs and leaven there crap all over the mtns and camp grounds would help more then anything

[Yard Dog]

Question:

If baiting is such a bad practice and should not be done, then why does the DWR allow bait stations for bow hunters? I would think that if this practice is so wrong that it needs to be outlawed, then outlaw it. If bowhunters can register a bait station with the DWR and hunt this way, why not houndsmen? Just a thought.....

[Nolte]

NO WAY!!! No how a fed bear ends up a dead bear....This could work in a non populated area but we have way to many people in the mtns all the time!!! People not being pigs and leaven there crap all over the mtns and camp grounds would help more then anything

Bplott,

Just thought I'd throw in a different perspective from what I've seen in WI. As you know, we can bait and have for a long time. We also have a LOT of lake home/cabins that are located in PRIME bear country. The scenario usually goes like this. They see a bear and think it's the coolest thing ever. Next thing they know, it's ripping down their bird feeder every night and tearing apart any garbage it can get in to. This is the most prevalent in the early spring and summer. You can't blame the bear, it's just looking for some grub. Now when most guys start to run the baits heavy, those complaints start to drop. Sure some will happen but it's not even close to when no baits are out.

It also works as a great way to lure bear into non-prime areas and keep them around, where a guy can hunt. Just have a rule set where the bait needs to be X amount of miles from known campgrounds or bear complaint areas. Some of the woods that guys hunt now in WI, wouldn't hardly hold a bear except if it was passing through. But toss a few baits in those pine blocks and they will surely hang around enough to run.

The other overlooked part of baiting is that it allows sows to be much healthier going into the winter. It gives them a food source on top of the natural ones already availble. Going into the winter healthier will increase the amount of cubs and survival rate, which will grow your population. I'd bet by the time it's said and done, you'd have the same amount of bear complaints but 3 times the bear around. That's a good thing for hound guys but probably not what those horn hunters want to see, so I'd leave that part out.