Brady Davis' GGS's

[Catman]

Just curious as I haven't seen a reason yet Tim has refunded anyone money. Even if the dog didn't have pups???????

[liontracker]

Steve, that is not what I said. I said "I will not be responsible for hidden genetic issues that other breeders prior to me let get out of their kennel. I did call almost every breeder in that pedigree and no one has ever seen any sort of displasia. In fact, the Labrador research that was done on dysplasia awhile back, proves that diet is as much of the cause as genetics. What are you feeding as for food? Dysplasia cannot be certified possitive or negative until 2 yrs of age, as regulated by the liscensing agency in charge of it.

Oh yeh, It is too bad you put the French cross down, as the littermate with a similar issue has grown out of it and is just fine structurally, even the feet have tightened up.

Now get the hell off Brady's post with this shit and call me like a man...and that goes for any of you on this board.

Brady did have some fresh pics of a lion put up by only those three young hounds, but I would not blame him a bit, if he did not post them now. Again...sorry for your loss.

[OleMoodyBlues]

Gentlemen,

I don't have a dog, in this fight, however...I saw the video.

In NO Way, should any one of those hounds/pups, should, be kept to reproduce.
That is a Cull cross, in anyone's honest opinion.

If anyone been in this business, long enough, you will realize, not all crosses work, it's just the way it is.

Neurological and Neuromuscular faults,Guys, pups do not grow out of it, it's in there DNA.
When that pup, gets under stress,,overheat, get physically tire, it will go back into convulsions....at night or deep in the woods, often not in plain sight, and can go un detected.

French hounds, always, had a unique/weak hip and rear structure.
This comment, do not reflect that French hounds, are not great hunting hounds and can't get the job done.

The Cross produced a hybrid, with special problems.

It happens.

Ole Moody Blues

[Mr.pacojack]

Boy these dogs went to shit faster than I even thought they would And timmy boy is sinking with them and IN MY OPPINION he deserves it.
All my statements are my oppinion timmy, that way you can't sue me

[MDbloodtracker]

Steve,...... What are you feeding as for food?.

Tim,
I myself had, and still have an interest in the GGS as a potential additon to my kennel one day.....I'm just reading the post here, and was wondering what kind of food you would reccomend that should be fed ?

[Catman]

"Oh yeh, It is too bad you put the French cross down, as the littermate with a similar issue has grown out of it and is just fine structurally, even the feet have tightened up."

So was the littermate eating bad food as well?

[liontracker]

Yep, the only two in that litter with problems were fed an alternative diet.

[MDbloodtracker]

Tim.....I was just askin an honest question......what kind of feed do you recommend?? Proten%, Fat%....even a brand recommendation.

[liontracker]

I don't recommend on dog food. Just a top quality that suits the work the dogs are doing. However, puppies should be fed puppy food and adults - adult food. If making your own, then get it analyzed or use some method to insure the proper recomended amount of vitamins and nutrients consistantly.

[Mr.pacojack]

If he recommended a dog food, and the dog still turned out deformed ( which they will IMO) then he would be painting himself in a corner.

[Catch]

What is the big deal? The man tried something an it didn't pan out. We all saw a pic of your bear dogs Paco, not to impressive there either. They were most likely shaking like the pup in the video.


Good luck on the Gascon project!

[African]

For me this issue draws a lot of parallels to our cattle farming industry and the basic line is the man behind the animal.
The most common and user friendly beef here is the mixed breed of unknown or recorded ancestry. Some show more obvious physical characteristics that identify a certain breed in the genetics but generally you cannot classify the animal in any of the breed descriptions.
Owners of these cattle want a hassle free animal that requires minimum input and a relative return at slaughter. The cattle wean at a young age, become fertile young, are quite disease resistant but remain small and have a low quality beef. The owners leave them free in the veld, sit at home and drink beer.

Then you get the refined breeds which have a far greater mass at slaughter, breed consistently, utilize the veld more efficiently, have better parental instincts, allow for stud entry and provide a high quality beef. The cost is however that they require more work - no sitting in the shade with a cold one in hand.

So the hunter that wants to load up his hounds once every couple of weeks, drop them on a track and meet them at the tree won't want to buy a GGS.
This is the refined breed. A tracking specialist.
We have read from the critics they mature too late, don't tree well enough and now "beware breeding these things".

In my limited experience there cannot be much more of a suitable ground as Colorado, New Mexico and Utah for developing this breed into highly respected big game hound.
However it requires a dedicated, hard hunting, resilient man with sufficient resource and commitment to bring the best out of this breed.
- it is hard to beat the man that never gives up-



On a side note Steve - some years ago when we were corresponding while I was in Europe and you were piping hot on getting a GGS bitch - then did not come through with the money after I found you a superb adult female from a reputable kennel, did you offer to refund me for my time, telephone calls and travel expenses?
All I got was 'Sorry'.

[Majestic Tree Hound]

Yep Gavin I Think I have PAID my Fair Shair in Theses Geneticly Broken hounds !!!
Very Sorry you Did'nt get your Cut of the Action Maybe you should Ask him for your Cut..

For this Cross Breed pup to Have Hip Dysplasia and Elbow Dysplisia as Bad as it Does it HAD to come from Both Sets The SIRE and the DAM and as He stated above He call most all the Breeders on the Dams Side and Their were "No Such Problems" So Maybe Most of the Defects are coming from The Sires Side ????

$1,000 Plus for the GGS Female .. Plus $1,000 for the Cross Breed plus Vet Expences and Travel..

Gavin the Deal was You were to get the First Litter off the Bitch before I was ever to recieve Her ... Did you not still get your Litter off her ???



General Elbow Dysplasia Information

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The Three Faces of Elbow Dysplasia

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Elbow dysplasia is a general term used to identify an inherited polygenic disease in the elbow of dogs. Three specific etiologies make up this disease and they can occur independently or in conjunction with one another. These etiologies include:

Pathology involving the medial coronoid of the ulna (FCP)


Osteochondritis of the medial humeral condyle in the elbow joint (OCD)


Ununited anconeal process (UAP)
Studies have shown the inherited polygenic traits causing these etiologies are independent of one another. Clinical signs involve lameness which may remain subtle for long periods of time. No one can predict at what age lameness will occur in a dog due to a large number of genetic and environmental factors such as degree of severity of changes, rate of weight gain, amount of exercise, etc. Subtle changes in gait may be characterized by excessive inward deviation of the paw which raises the outside of the paw so that it receives less weight and distributes more mechanical weight on the outside (lateral) aspect of the elbow joint away from the lesions located on the inside of the joint. Range of motion in the elbow is also decreased.


-Polygenic
Coming from more than one ("poly") gene pair. These traits are more complex than the typical dominant or recessive genetic trait. The additive interaction of the genes can cause variable results and the gene can be easily passed on to other generations without being identified.

[African]

Steve I have no financial interest in Tims hounds nor any working affiliation with him, so there is no cut.

I have 30 Gascon-Saintongeois including the 8 I brought in from kennels in Belgium and France. Another 10 pups have been placed (no sale) with hunters in the US, Spain and South Africa.
Not a single hound currently has any genetic problems.

I understand you are upset at having lost your money but if this set back makes you change from being the raving French connection to the bitter critic then I don't think you have the salt for any long run.

If I were Tim I would replace the pups or refund the money but all I can offer is, for the integrity of the breed, I will send you a pup provided you pay all transport costs and guarantee that it will be placed in a hard hunting home, not a puppy mill.

[Majestic Tree Hound]

Gavin I never had any Problem with the Ability / Drive or Grit that I saw in Both the Pure GS or the Cross Breed .. Never Once

Some Had their Doubts about Coon Hunting a Pure GS but I have found that when Exposed and Hunted with my Other Hounds She has no Problem what so ever and This was a Huge Strech for the Saintongeois to preform .. Before She started with Her Problems She was ran on Bear and She was a Producer in the Pack ..

The Cross bred Pup could Hold his own with any pup his Age plus did a few things that left my mouth hanging open ..

And I was Convinced that Breeding in the GS could add a little Something More to My Stock .


As a matter of Fact I would love to try a male GS as a replacement for the Crossbreed but he told me No Way and as a matter of fact he was incressing the price of the GS pups to $1,500 so he would be out way too much money..