Wardens an the Sheriffs are one in the same

[bigboarstopper]

Iv posted plenty of comments in regards to game wardens in california giving the houndsman the 3rd degree. Yesterday I was pulled over by the sheriffs department after a morning hunt. It seems the treatment we have been getting by the wardens has now been extended to include the local sheriffs dept.

Coming home from a morning hunt at my ranch outside of king city (california) yesterday morning around noon I got pulled over by a Monterey county sheriff. He came up to the window and asked for my licence ect. He said I was speeding. He came back to the window and asked me to step out of the rig. I walked out and had a seat on his front bumper.

He asked me what the box was for and I told him it was for holding hog dogs. He proceded to ask me where I was comming from and I told him I had a ranch just outside of town. He asked if I had any weapons in the vehicle. I told him yes and all the weapons I had were stored in the vehile were done legally. He asked to search the vehicle and I told him no. We then had a 10 minute conversation that could be described as just short of an argument about why I wouldnt consent to a vehicle search. His reasons were about not having anything to hide and my reasons were about not submiting to a search that was unnecessary. During that conversation he asked me to consend to a search 3 to 4 more times. My answer remained no.

Three more sheriff deputys arrived. He then asked the 2 passengers to exit the vehicle and join me at the cruser bumper. The deputy then proceded to search the vehicle and remove a rifle in a locked case from under the back seat. I asked the backup deputy why he was searching my vehicle if I did not consent to a vehicle search. He shruged his shoulders and then proceded to wisper into his mic and talk to the deputy searching. I asked if I was going to get an answer to why he was searching before or after he was done searching my truck. The searching deputy came over to me 5 minutes after he began his search and told me he had probabale cause. He said "your poaching. I know it". I asked him why we went through the motions of asking for permition to search and he said it was just to see what I would say.

The deputy continued to search for another 5 minutes and came back to me and said he had probable cause to search because there was ammo in the vehicle with the rifle and that was his probable cause. I asked him how he was able to come to that conclusion if he didnt search my vehicle in the first place. He said he could take me to jail on the weapon in the vehicle and I should "marinade on that before I spoke any further".

The deputy finished the search the interior of the truck and asked me to unlock my tool box. I told him no. He asked me numerous times as to the contents of my toolbox and for me to unock it. He asked me "officially" if I was hiding a hog in the toolbox. I told him no. He said if I didnt unlock it then they were going to pry it open. I shook my head no. He instructed 2 of the deputies to open it. They played with the lock to see if they could pick it. What they didnt know was that it was unlocked and all they had to do was open it. Finally they opened the toolbox, searched and found my hunting gear, pistol and nothing illegal.

At the end of this almost 2 hour ordeal I recieved a speeding ticket for doing 60mph in a 55mph zone. Before the deputy let me go he assured me I was getting a break because he could have arrested me for having a gun and ammunition in the cab together. I also discovered that the ammo that the deputies found in the vehicle was a few 41.mag pistol rounds in the center console. I was under the impression from the deputy that the ammo he discovered in the cab was rifle ammo for the rifle in the case under the back seat.

Im sick of this crap. All just because I had a dog box

[George Streepy]

Bigboarstopper,

Way to stand your ground. As I have mentioned before innocent people should not be treated that way. I wish the Game Dept and other law enforcement the best of luck when going after poachers. But that does not mean we should give up our constitutional rights.

I hope you have the officers information and don't stop with complaining on this forum. I would definitely request a meeting with the county sheriff. Ask him/her why his deputies think they can circumvent the Constitution. If the Sheriff doesn't agree to the meeting go to the County Commissioners, and on up the food chain. It isn't easy but with a little persistence I bet you will find yourself getting a meeting.

I would suggest one thing... An angry blow hard would be dismissed as such. Keep your cool. They need to be challenged on this. Not sure how your County works but somewhere there is a way to get the officer reprimanded. We need the innocent to push these issues. It seems like the only ones that do are ones that had charges filed when the officers found something during the illegal search.

I wish you luck. That type of confrontation is very intimidating.

George

[coadycurbow]

Dang, I feel lucky when I read all the warden horror stories on here. We got two new wardens last year in the county I hunt in here in East TX. We had a good relationship with the older guys who retired, so we were a little worried about the new guys. My brother and brother in law met the new wardens while they were dove hunting. My brother was legal, but my brother in law didn't have his hunters safety card. The warden gave him a citation, but gave him his contact info and gave my brother in law six weeks to take the class and call him and tell him so he could "take care of the ticket". He did and the ticket was thrown out. I met them on a dove hunt a week later. We spent an hour talking hog hunting with dogs. Two very nice young men. I have been watching Wild Justice and get mad nearly every episode because of the way hunters are being portrayed. If I hadn't been raised hunting by hunters, I would think all hunters were lying drug addicts who only killed something when they poached it because that is what is being shown on TV.

[Benny G]

That type of confrontation is very intimidating.

It's also against the constitution, against ALL levels of freedom, and just plain BS gestapo tactics!! Dirty SOB's like that need a month long stay in the hospital "to marinate"!!

[boardog]

damn............what chumps! its real shity the things i hear coming from your area. its not very far from me. should have recorded it somehow. i spoke with my lawyer about this shit. not your case but in general. he instructed me to call him whenever i get stopped and to hand the phone to the office and not say a word to him. probable cause is BS. and in your case being stopped for speeding is in no way shape or form ''probable cause'' to seach your vehicle. again........chumps, if they had something to take you in on they would have.

[George Streepy]

Dirty SOB's like that need a month long stay in the hospital "to marinate"!!

Benny although I completely agree it probably wouldn't do Bigboarstopper a whole lot of good.

[Benny G]

I understand, completely George. There's just some things that set me off good and mad, and over zealous communist acting pieces of s#!t "authority figures" are on the top of the list!

[George Streepy]

Loud and clear Benny. I am with you. It is so aggravating. When this happens to innocent people I just hope they make sure to make a beef over it. It seems the only people that make waves were the ones that were guilty of something. I'm sure law enforcement justify their actions by patting themselves on the back if they find something. They need to be reminded they work for us and they can't treat the general public that way.

[fallriverwalker1]

your cop is buddies with your fish and game warden , thats harrasement . goinging to say it once again , invest in a viedo cam and use it tell them what your doing and why , i guarantee you they wont like it one bit but the crap will stop .everything he did was illegal ,but it's your word against his , unless you record it . if they complain ask him what he's worried about ,your just doing this to clear ip any confusion ,should this need to go to court . that's what they say when they record you , jim

[boardog]

your cop is buddies with your fish and game warden , thats harrasement . goinging to say it once again , invest in a viedo cam and use it tell them what your doing and why , i guarantee you they wont like it one bit but the crap will stop .everything he did was illegal ,but it's your word against his , unless you record it . if they complain ask him what he's worried about ,your just doing this to clear ip any confusion ,should this need to go to court . that's what they say when they record you , jim

thats it right there. flip video cam and my lawyer on speed dial.

[BEAR HUNTER]

Big Boar stopper. There are several issues there that need to be addressed. Being an ex-cop I can answer some of your questions real quick. First having a gun or ammo in your car does give the officers PC to search your car, that is a US Supreme court decision. I know Im gonna get some flack on that one but I am correct. Second The Penal Code specifically defines a loaded gun as having ammo "attached to or touching" the gun. Just close proximity is not enough. The problem is academies teach having ammo with in reaching distance constitutes a load gun. I went round and round with my department and finally had the legal advisor side with me that its not illegal. The problem is some lower courts have ruled that it meets the definition of a loaded gun so its a toss up on if you can win or not. The search of the tool box is illegal and I believe I know why they did it but wont go into it. Also when an officer uses a traffic violation to stop you to investigate another crime they only have enough time that it takes a normal prudent officer to issue a citation. This one will take more explination. I will PM you with my phone number. Will be easier to talk about this on the phone. You need to file some complaints for violation of your rights and fight the ticket.

[George Streepy]

I saw on the news that some states are outlawing the use of a video camera when you are dealing with an officer. This is in retaliation to punks fighting with officers while bystanders stand around with a video camera. Then only clips make it onto the internet making the officer look wrong whether he was or not. I think the news said it was illegal in 18 states????

Sounds crazy to me but I know there are new laws concerning video cameras. Wouldn't want people getting in trouble for that too.

[BEAR HUNTER]

Hey George thanks for the info, I have not heard of that one. Not sure how they can make it stick. The ACLU would be all over that. Thats interesting will have to research it more.

[George Streepy]

Here is a link to an article that talks about it.

http://www.videomaker.com/community/vid ... -a-felony/

A few months ago there were several incidents where the Seattle Police were video taped. One being a jay walker who ended up getting punched by the police officer. That is when the news was reporting that taping an officer without their consent could land you in jail. I don't really know, but it seems like filming an officer may be a bad idea, you might get in more trouble for that.

[BEAR HUNTER]

WOW! How in the world can that law be constitutional. Here in California you are perfectly legal to video tape or voice record someone in a PUBLIC place such as a public street, even cops. I will continue to fight for my constitutional rights. Thanks for the link George. I am definetly going to look into that. Maybe it needs to be brought to the attention of some good conservative talk show host like hannity or Fox news.