Draw Cougar Hunts in Eastern Washington

Darvin Ecklund · Post by **Darvin Ecklund** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:16 am

Just checking to see how houndmen view the way the Cougar Hunts are set up in Eastern Washington. Any different idea's if things were to be changed?

Post by **Buddyw** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:19 pm

My two comments. and suggestions

I'd like to see a more Statewide Training season or pursuit season (perhaps separate the Training/Pursuit tags from the harvest tags.) It's Pretty hard to Spend hundreds of dollars and Drive 8 hours to Pursuit or train dogs for a weekend when I can drive 3 hours and save hundreds of bucks to hunt bobcats in Oregon.. to have succesful dogs we need to be able to train dogs.. And even with the pursuit it's just not feasable or economical to utilize the Pursuit season unless you live in NE washington.

Second I would personally like to have a method that I could use Non-residents to Help me handle dogs. Again we have been forced to go Out of State to train our dogs on cats. That means (at least for me) I have more Non-resident Hunting partners (that I trust and can rely on as good Hunters) than I have who are residents Cat hunters. They are dog handlers.... they aren't harvesting Cougars. It makes since for saftey Reasons also.. Sometimes I have been forced to hunt alone because the few Washington Guys I know who are experienced and dedicated enough can't get off work or something when the conditions are right. I've been stuck 15 miles up a canyon without any help because I couldn't find a Washington Resident that could up and go hunting with me on short notice.. But I had several Oregon Friends who would have been happy to be up there shoveling my truck out with me.. with a smile even though they wouldn't be able to shoot.

Other than that I've been pretty happy with it.
Buddy

Darvin Ecklund · Post by **Darvin Ecklund** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:55 pm

Where are you located in Washington? You ever want to go to Oregon and hunt together let me know. I can go anytime. I agree with you about the cougar deal. It is more of a killing thing, not a sportsman hound hunting hunt. Too many females getting killed the first couple weeks ends the season in a hurry and really how many hound guys need to kill 1 or even 2 cougars a year. They should make it so that any of the four people involved in the hunt can kill the cat as long as just the one is harvested. When you draw 20 tags and only 10 cats can be killed this makes for a hunt that isn't that enjoyable. I have heard of 60 and 70 lb cats being killed. It is great we get a little hunting in but is this what we want our sport to become- a race on who can kill the first cat treed before the quota is filled?

PIGLET · Post by **PIGLET** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:47 pm

well to start buddy and darvin the pilot program was never intended to make any sense. The game dept never wanted it and the wardens absolutly hate having it. It was only put in place to make those county commissioners happy. The commissioner were going to try and have their own season, with county residents the only ones able to hunt. This was slapped down by the wdfw but had the backing of some legislators. So wdfw and commissioners got together to start this pilot program that is why second draw was for county residents only. This program has one agenda and that is to kill some cats to appease the residents in those counties. The pursuit was approved by the wildlife commission because they like the idea of telling anti's they are helping public safety without killing any animals.
Hey darvin heard lots about you, you hang with that dog rob miller ha ha
give me a call if you get bored and want to bs.

PIGLET · Post by **PIGLET** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:06 pm

Darvin the number is 509 322-5990

Post by **Buddyw** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:06 pm

Hey Mike..

I was debating on heading back up there for a week to chase some cats and hopefully meet up with you.. but like I said I think we are going to point it south and go chase some more bob's that week.. Cheaper and about 5 hours less driving. Sounds like your ready for some spring weather and bear hunting anyways..

bearbaito6 · Post by **bearbaito6** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:07 pm

I think that its working, the complaint levels are down from what I hear, But they should be after having way to high of quotas and slaughtering them the last few years plus the public saftey hunts they had there before the pilot program. Now peaple are just shooting the first cat they can find before the next guy does. Its joke for us hound guys but it sure proves that it works. Yeah I don't think hound guys need or want to shoot a cat every year. But by making it hound hunters only I think they are trying to prevent Guided hunts Darvin!

PIGLET · Post by **PIGLET** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:09 pm

hey bearbait they have not touched on killing too many. The DNA project in okanogan ferry was supposed to be an escapement study which is dna 25 cats and have 10 or more killed during the pilot program, they could show that there werent that many cats. As of the start of this year 100 cats have been dna"ed only 18 have been killed both pilot program and boot hunters. They usually kill about 15-20 on the reservation just below the program. The cougar population seems to be higher than what thought, I don't think 20 cats killed whether male or female in those counties even put a dent on the population. Cats move in from canada and if 15 females have 2 kittens then the population just grew by 15 in one year. The wfdw is trying to make this hunt look like we are are there for safety reasons not for sport hunting because that was outlawed.

Bearkiller · Post by **Bearkiller** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:25 pm

There is something inherently wrong with the system. The state doesn't care if you're killing females. Just like the bear hunts. Every bear you catch is supposed to be killed. Its about numbers, not whats right. As far as the hunting. I have hunted with Darvin and bearbait. I'll bet you both are getting more action than before I-655. I may be wrong but I doubt it. The people who really got hurt are the people who are just starting or young.

Buddy, did I miss something in the rules because I didn't read where out of staters couldn't be handlers. Maybe I missed it. I read the rules because I was thinking about participating in a friends hunt in ferry county. It didn't work out though.

Hopefully there can be a return to some sort of legal hound hunting with out all the B.S. so I can move back home.

Darvin Ecklund · Post by **Darvin Ecklund** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:03 pm

More hunting since I-655, not at all! Before we were not told where to hunt, have a vet verify that we own a hound (like a vet would know if you had a dog capable of catching a lion- who's smart idea was this?) and all the other little rules associated with this whole process. At least get someone with hounds and someone that has at least caught a little game to help with the guidelines. Heck, If you and your buddy split up to look for the dogs and the Cougar trees next to the road the guy without the permit can't even go into the tree unless the permit holder is with him/her without getting pinched for it. It's time to move to a State where the Department is o.k. with hound hunters and understands that hound guys would make their jobs easier with all the cougar and bear complains they deal with every year. Maybe some day we will stop fighting with one another and band together. Without this, our sport in Washington will be over- in my lifetime anyway. And for the record Bearkiller, if I get a permit for bear or cougar, I am more than willing to have anyone go with me anytime. The more people we keep in the hound world, the better off we are. It's when only a handfull of hound hunters get to hunt is when the trouble starts and the bad mouthing of other hunters gets in the way. Maybe we need to work on that- myself included. There is nothing like a great hound and I don't care who's it is!

Bearkiller · Post by **Bearkiller** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:49 pm

What I stated wasn't meant to be offensive. I was refering to hunting in general including bear hunting. You were as generous to me as anyone. The shot about young people wasn't at you at all. Its a general statement. I think the rules are basicly meant to appease the the people in eastern washington. The sqeaky wheel gets the grease so to speak. They aren't set up to actually accomplish anything. WDFW doesn't like hound hunting. Its not a big secret.

PIGLET · Post by **PIGLET** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:49 pm

A couple of good points guys, but we have to realize that to get most of our hunting rights back we have to overturn i-655. I don't know of anyone in wfdw that hound hunts with their own hounds, so they work to keep the anti's, legislators, governor, and sportsmen and their employees all happy (good Luck) this while trying to manage a budget. The little hunting we have now is being made to look like they need it to control populations and manage the species. REMEMBER HOUNDS ON BEAR LION AND BOBCAT IS ILLEGAL.. So everything that is done they have to justify to the above people... I just heard that they are now going to open the draw to all, not just houndsmen. GOOD IDEA (NO) the anti's will buy the 5.48 application and let the tag go, your chances to draw will greatly decrease... If you want to really get hunting back a group needs to try and raise money for advertising, inform the public that all hound hunting is necessary both bear,cougar and bobcat and try to overturn 655 with the passion and money that the anti's did in 96"

Bearkiller · Post by **Bearkiller** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:53 pm

Piglet, I have stated that I will give $500 to any legitimate lawsuit to overturn I-655. I stand behind that. I don't even live there anymore. But I'd move back in 2 seconds if they overturned at least part of that inititive.

Darvin Ecklund · Post by **Darvin Ecklund** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:16 pm

Maybe it's about time to try and get it back on for a vote. It would be a lot better if our State had a bear quota like California and a Cougar quota like Montana then to have it where only a "few" people can hunt bear or cougar with hounds, give the meat to the food banks, and let the hides be sold out of State. Who's making money off the bear hides anyway? Does anyone know? Maybe a good question for the Game Commission. Oh, I quess I am opening up another can of worms!

Travis Stirek · Post by **Travis Stirek** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:49 pm

Hey guys I sit on the Okanogan Wildlife task force and helped give alot of the ideas that have been implemented on the Pilot program.
1.The "dog" owner only part was put into effect to try and curb the anti's from "buying the 5.48 application" and drawing all the tags and sitting on them.
2.The Washington resident only portion was put in to curb guided hunts.Our county commissioner wanted county resident only because she felt who better to deal with the problem.I fought this and she was also told from a constitutionality stand point it wouldn't fly.
3.Quotas suck for the afformentioned reasons.
4.The pilot program was established for just the reasons you guys are talking about.It never was set up to be the only hound hunting in Washington.It was set up to run its course and gather data to show that if hounds are allowed back in as a management tool complaint levels and depredation will fall.Now that it has ran its course and the data has been compiled(the reason it was extended an additional year) Rep. Kretz has introduced legislation to start the process of getting our hound hunting (lion anyway) back.It was talked about letting other counties opt into the "pilot program as a start.My personal feelings are it sucks that the quota levels were set at a level for a population decline in order to prove this but whatever works.
5.Rumors of a bear pilot program in the future.
6.The game wardens over here are loving the annihaltion that has taken place cause now the don't have to be animal control officers.LOL
Darvin,you know the Bonaparte area,that is my DNA unit and if you have came over here this year or even last year you know that the population level is NOWHERE near that of the past.

Draw Cougar Hunts in Eastern Washington

Draw Cougar Hunts in Eastern Washington

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