Idaho Houndsmen need your help

[IDpete]

I don't know about the northern part of the state but in the southeast units our cats are hurting badly. I along with other local Houndsmen have been calling the Fish and game expressing our concerns and asking them to lower the female quotas in hopes of helping people be a little more selective and leave more females for seed and hopefully get some lions back and build some age on a few.

The Fish and game needs to hear from us and let them know about our concerns. Now is the time while the proposals are fresh and can be changed.
PLEASE attend the meetings or call your local biologists and commissioners.If enough of us address our concerns we can persuade them. Be persistent and help our sport. a five minute phone call can go along way. Thanks

[tiny42]

I agree I think the quota should be like 4 if not lower not 22 thats way to many. There are to many jackass people that kill whatever trees I heard there is a fish and game meeting in preston at the library on march 7

[IDpete]

Tiny,Yes the 7th at the Larsen Library in Preston 6pm.
Look in the hunting section under proposals/public meetings for places and dates.
Blackfoot March 3rd
Preston 7th
Malad 8th
and Pocatello the 9th
all start at 6pm
Soda was tonight and Montpelier was last Night but they didn't post that one till yesterday i believe so not many made it.
There is also a comment section in the proposals so if you only have limited time please at least type your concerns in there. Like I said I believe everything everyone adds will help.
Thanks

[TREESOMECATS]

It was a pretty sad turn out last night in montpelier and there is alot more deer hunters that want all the cats dead than houndsmen.so please get to a meeting or send in your comments

[Dan V]

If they really cared about a healthy lion population.....lift all the quotas and have a 8 month long season; close the season down in december, january, february and march. Leave it open the rest of the year. Of course that proposal would piss off most of the lion hunters and deer hunters. Eventually there would be surplus lions and more hunting opportunities.

A friend of mine has been doing some lion study work with fish and game in a state that outlawed lion hunting. There are WAY more lion hunting opportunities in that state now, then there was before.....if only they had a season now for the public to be able to take advantage of the surplus lions. Talk about "kid in a candy store."

[Idaho]

I don't know about the northern part of the state but in the southeast units our cats are hurting badly.

Northern Idaho is pretty bad too. Here in the Clearwater there are no quotas at all, which, among other things, has led to a very low cougar population. Having seen how many cougar we had even ten years, to how few we have now... it really is sad. Finding a cougar track these days is truelly a surprise.

The IDFG will not listen - Like TREESOMECATS said, deer and elk hunters fund the bankroll so they get the most earplay. They complain about too few deer/elk and claim that the answer is to kill more predators, so that's what is happening, cougar and bear be damned they say. We're here because of bad management, and because of the wolves. All of our game could be managed better if the focus wasn't on money firstly. If the focus was on populations we'd all be better off.

[IDpete]

Idaho, I agree, the Fish and Game here says it's part of the Mule Deer Initiative. Their own extensive, expensive predator study even states that predators don't play the role in the deer problems that they always claim. So basically they don't know what is going on with the cat populations but telling the deer hunters killing cats is the solution is pretty ignorant on their part.

[Plotts]

Another issue for Southeast Idaho is that they have proposed to extend the spring bear kill season by one week, to provide more opportunity.

You can post your comments on the F&G website.

[hyde]

I don't know about the northern part of the state but in the southeast units our cats are hurting badly. I along with other local Houndsmen have been calling the Fish and game expressing our concerns and asking them to lower the female quotas in hopes of helping people be a little more selective and leave more females for seed and hopefully get some lions back and build some age on a few.

The Fish and game needs to hear from us and let them know about our concerns. Now is the time while the proposals are fresh and can be changed.
PLEASE attend the meetings or call your local biologists and commissioners.If enough of us address our concerns we can persuade them. Be persistent and help our sport. a five minute phone call can go along way. Thanks

[hyde]

I am very glad to see some fellow houndmen comming together to address this sensitive issue. I have written to the commisioner of the fish and game for my district, only to have my concerns fall on deaf ears. As the son of the retired assistant chief of inforcement of the game dept. The grandson of a houndman and senator that fought for our rights, and pushed the female quota, I am not a stranger to this issue. Saddly, the fish and game has forgotten that the Mountain Lion is a big-game animal, that requires protection. They are not listed as a predator. I know that the game dept. has raised the quotas to a level that has devistated our mountain lion population.

I do not have the answer. I agree that the few of us that want to conserve this sport need to keep voicing our opinions. I also know that the hunters that keep harvesting every animal they tree are destroying it. I have tried to get through to many of them, but have found that their is a huge difference between men that are hunters, and men that are killers. Killers don't give a hoot. I know that it is very confritational to say , but I know that our guides are proving themselves to be the killers more so than the men who chase game for the love of the sport. Not for the love of money.

For those that want to argue, contact the State office and find out who's bringing in the most dead cats. You guides are working yourselves out of a job, and ruining my childs chance of enjoing the life I grew up with, and love.

In conclusion, I have not found a cat this entire season. I only know of a couple that were found in my area, and they are dead. Thank you for voicing your opinion. May there be more of us in the future teaching young hunters that it is O.K. to catch and release. God Bless.

[Bplott]

All I can say is...... you guys have to band together and come up with a plan and hammer your wildlife agencys.... we have the same problems here in utah... except we have no female sud quota at all..... females and kittens are being slattered

[imchestnut]

How does Idaho Fish and Game set the quotas for bear and lion? Does anyone know? I thought they had studies done (alot of the time by grad students) and monitor the population to what they think is an appropriate level. I'm not saying that too many lions and bears die, but to be honest, I'm not sure they don't get more road savvy and stay away from where everyone bugs them. It was rare that I went out two weekends and didn't at least find a track...but I hunt areas that you CAN'T get a sled or a pickup and even weeks after a snow I sill was hitting areas that no one had been into...

I think the female quota is good but it all comes down to people not killing, sometimes at all, even if its a good cat or a good bear. The good cats and good bears breed too. Aside from a few bear baiters (and most the bears get tough to bait with pressure) its only hound guys doing the killing... I surely don't need the government to keep my finger off the trigger, hopefully more will follow suit.

[Dennis Fisher]

Hyde, You have some extremely giant foot prints to follow knowing both your grandfather and father. But it's obvious you are well on your way of maybe even exceeding what both did for our great State. Your post definitely shows you understand this problem well and hit the nail on the head has for the solution to it. But may I add just a touch more about your grandfather. Not only was he a great houndsman and a hard, hard fighter for the sports of hound hunting in this great State, but a legendary Breeder of the best Redbones that ever sang the "Mountain Music" in our State. Hopefully you can keep that going has well. He was a dang good vet too.

IDpete, you need to be commended for wanting to continue with the never ending fight for our sports with this also. Some where back around the early 90's was when the quota's was first put in place. I have quite a bit of some of that documentation in a drawer some where. Little good it will do today though. They were set up to ensure the population in a joint effort by the F&G, the Idaho Outfitter & Guide Ass. and the Sport hunters. They were suppose to be adjusted has the population decrease or increased to maintain the population of that time frame. Back then, many units were still two deer units. Back then, you could drive a stretch of road then come back and start which track you wished. Back then, to start a track with less than a 20 inch stride was unheard of. The F&G, in conjunction with the Outfitters, even published pamphlets educating all of this and how to identify males from females so the females and smaller cats wouldn't be taken.

Times have definitely changed from those days in this State. Yes, the F&G can definitely be blamed for misusing, altering or manipulating much of what was done back then to insure our great sports. The Houndsman Permit is another example of this. It has now been changed by them to control us, not protect us from the issues of why it was created. But what I sincerely hope all of you that also wish to protect our sport takes the time to think about is one simple thing. When you ask the F&G to do something, don't ask them to fix your problem for you. Ask them to help you protect and enhance what you already are doing for yourselves.

History has shown, with issues just like this quota issue, that when asked to manage or address a issue on their own, they will always follow their agenda or that of the biggest, most politically powerful user groups. Has proven far to many times, this ALWAYS hurts our sport in the end. But when a user group work with them, good things can and do happen for that user group. We already have the Clubs and the ISDA in place to unify and put forth the "power is in the numbers" influence with them on this and all issues of our sport. Some may remember the battle to save our sport from the anti's in the vote of 96. There was also a day when the Houndsman of this State were the smallest user group. But a group also so delicate to our sport we became powerful and influential enough to organize all user groups to fight for and save our sport.

So let's face the facts here. The F&G didn't kill all the cats. The Houndsman did. The deer and elk hunters didn't allow the F&G to manipulate the laws of this State for their benefit with little to no impute from us. The Houndsman did. This can go on and on. It's one thing to loose something after putting up a fight. But we have no one to blame but ourselves for not putting up that fight. It's the same for allowing our sport to be changed from once being a group of Houndsman to a group of "trophy" hunters. It's not the "trophy" hunters that allowed the definition of a Lion to be reduced to anything with a long tail, even with spots still on it's belly. It's not the "trophy" hunter that changed the definition of a bear to any bear sitting in a tree by itself, even 75 lb. yearlings. Nor fill multiple tags for his buddies to become the "Great Hunter". It's not the Outfitters fault when one of them devastates a area for profit. It was we, the true Houndsman of the State, that have allowed all this to happen.

I sincerely hate suggesting this simply because it puts another restriction upon ourselves. But here's a possible solution all but the "trophy" hunters will agree with simply because it protects all involved parties personal sports, including our own. It will also very possibly solve all the issues that I mentioned has being a "problem" above. If the Outfitters don't have cats, they have no cat business. It's not the little cats and bear that can threaten the elk and deer herds. It's posses no lose of income to the F&G. It posses no impact on enforcement because both have to be checked in. Just has they had too to protect many of the fisheries from over harvest. Just has many are suggesting imposing on deer and elk hunting to help bring them back. Impose size restriction on the bear and cat taken in this State. Then when approached by the Houndsman, the F&G will see we are willing to work together to solve a issue rather than just asking them to solve it for us. JMO!!!

[IDpete]

A lot of good thoughts and opinions, I hope everyone is relaying them to the F&G.

Dennis I agree " power is in the numbers" and we need to do all we can to get some changes made. Great post by the way.

Hyde which part of the state are you in?

Imchesnut according to the F&G biologist they don't do much, if any monitoring or studies and have not done so for a lot of years. I believe they just use harvest totals for each year to say yes there are still lions left, keep killing. the overall state numbers are dropping and the age class has gone way down.

We all know the sport is growing and there are a lot more people with dogs. It's not always easy to get everyone on the same page and in agreement but one thing for sure we need some changes.

[hyde]

First of all, thank you Dennis for the comments on my late Grandfather, and of my Dad. Just let me tell you that those are footprints that I could never fill, but I do my best to live by the path both of these men layed for me.

I agree with everything you said. You are right on the money when stating the fact that we houndmen did this to ourselves. When dad was in the state office, he tried to help out the houndmen.( probebly cause his dad told him too) Evertime he would suggest A solution to the problem he and Grandpa saw comming ( the problem we have today), he would get a handful of followers, and a bus load of advicaries.

It is great to see yourself, Id pete, and others on this page beginning to express their concerns, and expressing their opinions to possible solutions. If we could get all houndmen on the same wave length this problem would be solved, but that is virtually impossible. Honestly, as for myself, I have been in Dire Straits on what I can do to save my sport.

I believe it was in the late 1970's when the state realized the cats were being destroyed. That is when they were declassified as a predator and added as a biggame animal. This is something that I cannot reiterate enough. These animals should be managed, protected, follow a plan of conservation, just as ALL biggame animals do.
If it was not for the men back in the 70's, the cats would have been gone long ago. My point is simple. Stealing Dennis' words..... Numbers. I know that now is the time for the few of us to talk. I will start making calls monday morning to the game dept. I will also try to contact my commisioner again. He's going to learn that ignoring me isn't the answer. ( funny fact, my grandpa took him cougar hunting) It's time for the men of this era to stand up and defend what is in jepordy.


I urge everyone to start getting numbers. Id pete, you asked where I'm from, I live in Emmett. I am about 45 minutes N.W. of Boise. I thank you for starting this, you guys give me hope. It's nice to see that there's still some ethical houndmen left around here.
I suggest that we get something written up that we all agree upon, and start getting signatures. One can't erase a paper trail. I know that I can come up with some interesting facts to support my belief that the cats are being desroyed.


Just a thought guys. Travis Hyde