female killers

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I for a fact like you outfitters down south killing anything that trees as I get alot of hunters that are looking for a good tom that have been hunting Utah, Idaho,Montana and Colorado. They all have the same story, they all were told to kill the first cat they treed, most which where females.
Its simple, don't dump on female tracks and the hunter won't kill it.

[cat and bear]

Walker 83, little rough around the edges, but got your point across, that hurt a few feeling, but came very close to the truth of life. Timothy, rough, but stepping forward to get his point across , and making an effort, to do something about it. Seems he is making an attempt, instead of talking about it, and cleaning the blood under his nails when no one is looking. As a prime example, one person posted on here, never took a female. But was questioned if the female, had kitt's, a friend took, on a previous post. HUMMM. My take is this, by the time the wardens, maybe try and catch someone etc, peer pressure from fellow houndmen, will get way more accomplished, regardless of location or game hunted. Whether, you folks realize it, or not, here or there, you control your population of game more then you think. Yea, guys will slip in and kill a cat on you, out of state people will, but that should be in your average of harvest, in the area you hunt. Just because there is 30 tags issues doesnt mean you need to contribute your fair share to the harvest objective.

As someone suggested, perhaps book hunts knowing you only take toms, would be wise, your not setting yourself up for disapointed customers, yet managing the population is a responsible mannor. Instead of charging full amout, game taken or not, maybe half, for the hunt and full when tom is taken. I also dont buy supporting family stuff, we can all be in a jamb, and wouldnt hold it against anyone to guide a hunt or two a winter to cover costs. Wouldnt it be just as simple to train a good dog or two a year and sell, then clean out the game in your area, and have tracks to run at your leasure?If you need to guide to support the family, perhaps you need to look in the mirror at your priorities in life? As one stated, if you get out and hunt hard, you will find the track. Well what about the older fellows, that can no longer do that, that once could?. You will be there one day my friend. I know a guy here that guides cats, he is worth millions. He bragged of killing 19 for clients, that is like 190 in most places, because we simply dont have the population. In some cases, guiding is not only selfish, to your fellow hunters, its nothing more then a score card, of success to skrew the rest, of the houndmen, which enjoy the sport. In my example, I killed a cat is neutral tuff, an hour ahead of this guy, in Jan. The guy i was helping, was a brother to a large land owner here, and i was asked for the favor. When, this other hunter, figured that out, him and his son was a complete ass. His ego couldnt take he just got out hunted and spanked fair and square. A few thoughts, if i ever turn into someone like that, i promise to walk down the line of dogs, and eliminate them, and secondly, the guy is hated by all of his peers, if that is enjoyment , for an ego trip, and hunting, i guess i would quit. I can hunt and kill with anyone, including him, i just dont have to prove myself, as I have confidence in me and my dogs, im more challenged, by breeding and training young dogs, to me that is a true, well rounded houndsmen, someday, some of you, will really understand what im saying Good hunting and only you will fix the mess you and others have made.

[box rocker]

Anyone that Knows everything about lion hunting as most everyone on here does. Know all about depredation work. You get a call at any hour of the day rancher you have known for ever tells you about a calf thats half covered and up under a tree you load up the dogs go to the kill start the cat tree it quick with a belly full of meat and you ''KILL THE CAT'' and if you hunt and have made a name for yourself you get calls like that every year and if I didn't go and take care of it then the livestock board would be on the states ass and lions would be right there with coyotes so maybe I'm a female killin hero ha ha ha and I don't guide and cats aren't killed for trophy.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Cat and bear, What difference between a cougar hunt and an elk hunt. You would have to be a idiot to charge more for a kill. A hunt is a hunt you wouldn't charge less if a hunter doesn't tag out on a deer or elk hunt, would you??
The problem I see is there are to many outfitter looking to make a name for themselves by having 100% success each sesaon instead of priding themselves in killing toms only.

[cat and bear]

Cat and bear, What difference between a cougar hunt and an elk hunt. You would have to be a idiot to charge more for a kill. A hunt is a hunt you wouldn't charge less if a hunter doesn't tag out on a deer or elk hunt, would you??
The problem I see is there are to many outfitter looking to make a name for themselves by having 100% success each sesaon instead of priding themselves in killing toms only.

Again, Im throwing things out there, cats are limited more then elk and not dogged correct? You kind of answered your own post.

Box, Dont you feel working with Ranchers, is a different game then guiding, kind of two different subjects, or maybe i just dont understand, the way of doing things out there. My opinion is based on life in general, hunting out there for elk, and took a tom, and also how we do things here, and try and control the area i hunt the best i can, to have adequate game, instead of wearing out a truck, horse, boots or whatever, to find a track

[couleeking]

I really didn't want to get in on this one, but what the hell.

My thoughts are if your state allows the harvest of those females, noone can be pointing fingers at the houndsmen, outfitters, or whoever for harvesting them. If it is leagal, it going to happen. Simply put, there's always going to be someone out there to pull the trigger on a lion in the tree whatever it is.

I did notice a post on here that mentioned that the "fish cops" don't care. I agree, to some extent. Alot of those officials are "deer hunters", and I have never met a deer hunter that felt there was a place in the woods for large predators. One thing I do know is that it is their job to care, and to listen to what even houndsman have to say. If they don't, they shouldn't be making the rules for us.

There is alot of energy and emotion being put into this forum. Rather than pointing fingers at fellow houndsman, why are we not pointing fingers at your local dept of fish and game? Timothy, it's good to know that even if you have only been chasing lions for a year, you feel the way you do. I know that their are alot of guys out there that felt they had to harvest the first lion they ever treed wether it was a female or not, only to preach to everyone later in their hounding career that females should not be harvested. I think the enthusiasm you have would most likely go alot farther if you were directing it tword you local bioligists. If they act like they don't want to listen, call em again, and just keep after them. If you have buddies that feel the same way, get them to hound em.

With the way things are going anymore, we can't sit around and loose sleep over what the other guy is doing because their is always going to be that other guy doing somthing we don't like. If you feel the need to complain, tell the people who can fix the problem.

[Sackett]

By a show of hands...............
How many of you HAVE NOT killed a bitch-or watched one die over your dogs??
LMFAO
Come on all you gentlemen lets see those hands!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.pacojack]

The only way this thing is going to be corected is by everyone banning together and attending the Rac meetings, join your local clubs and get the female sub quoata back on the books. Utah once had the female sub quoata in the northern areas. These units were shut down very fast and the fish and game pulled the female sub quoata.
You will find that these guys like Dave and Houndem do not care for there sport and money is more important, you will not convince them of anything different, they will keep killing the females. So get the laws changed. This will stop most of the killing of females or it will limit it.

[Catch]

Oh my hell. After reading this, I had to make sure you guys live in the United States Of America. If this did happen in America, The land Of The Free, when does anyone have the right to criticize in this type of manner towards someone that has acted with in his legal right????? This type of criticism is harassment and a felony in most states. If possible and state law allows it, I would slap someone with a law suite, a felony and end this BS. If you don't like how the law reads, change it. Only Anti's and environmentalist act with this type of behavior. JMO

[StrawberryMt]

Oh my hell. After reading this, I had to make sure you guys live in the United States Of America. If this did happen in America, The land Of The Free, when does anyone have the right to criticize in this type of manner towards someone that has acted with in his legal right????? This type of criticism is harassment and a felony in most states. If possible and state law allows it, I would slap someone with a law suite, a felony and end this BS. If you don't like how the law reads, change it. Only Anti's and environmentalist act with this type of behavior. JMO

x2

[inchtowntracking]

I will put it out there and get on the list too I killed two females this year.

[larry]

go ahead and add me and every other guide on here to your registry

Speak for yourself houndnem. I'm an outfitter and I do not allow clients to take females, PERIOD. I could, I simply choose not to. My hunters know this before they come. Lion studies have shown that anywhere from 75% to 90% of females have kittens or are pregnant. I don't see how anyone that truly loves running cats with dogs can justify killing them.

Lets not sugar coat it too much and make yourself look too good here! One, how many lion hunts have you had in the last 4 years, i bet the number is in the single digits, low single digits. How many clients have you guided in the last 2 years for lion? I'm guessing there will not be an answer to these questions. Two, you hunt a special draw unit portion of the state so tags are drawn, makes it a little easier to be selective.

[Nolte]

This is an issue that can't be painted with a broad brush. Some areas can handle female harvest some can't. If you're area is struggling, what sense does it make to poke out a female. You'll surely feel the effects in the future if you run that strategy too far.

Not sure if it's better or worse, but guys in WI line up to punch tags for FREE. Burn them all before the next guy does so you can drive all day and not find a track. But what the hell gas is cheap right. The problem is most likely NOT the casual hunter who bags a female cause he's happy his dogs caught something. It's usually the guy's who have caught their fair share and know better.

I have to admit the guys who want to influence the DNR or Fish and Game, that gave me a good chuckle. Most (not all) feel we are the dregs of the hunting community. We are only important when they need to fill the quota for a bonehead citation or come get us when they need something killed. They get more from the bone hunters who drop big $ in licenses and they only have to put up with them for a week.

[Sackett]

Anybody recognize this guy??





Hero of the day!!

[M Evertsen]

I guess I am one that will be going against most people here, but oh well.

I have hounds, love the hounds, and don't guide. I spend most all of my free time hunting with the hounds.

I do believe that we need to conserve our sport, but there is also a fine line in being conservative, and being greedy. I have caught 6 cats total. Two have died, both young toms. I know people that have killed females, young and old. I think that there needs to be a wide range of animals killed to keep the population healthy. Will I ever kill a female? Maybe, maybe not. I just can't say what tomorrow will bring. But I do know in the units I hunt, there has not been a female killed in 5 or 6 years, and very few lions overall. I see no problem with killing a female or two in the areas I hunt, if someone feels like doing it.

I also know that if someone has a tag in their pocket - it doesn't specify male or female, and we don't have sub-quotas here. So if its legal, then its their choice.

As a group, we can do positive things to try to convince people to shoot males only, educate people as to the effects of killing a female, how to identify a female, etc. The bottom line is, if that cat was legally killed, then giving them crap about it like this post is, is not right, IMO.

Later,

Marcial