coonhuntr1911 wrote:M Everston did you read the reply were Dave was talked to personally. He did not care. I am sure he is not proud of what he is doing or he would have given the reasons for his actions to all of us. All we can do is specualte. Cmon Dave redeem yourself let us hear you reasons for doing it.
I somehow missed that post, and I have read the entire thread. I did see where Dave asked for Timothy to call him.
Dave should not have to justify himself in front of the entire world for doing something that was legal. We still do not know why he did that, and the way I see it, someone who has the balls to call him out on this website should have the balls to go knock on his door. I have done it when I had a problem with people, and we have worked it out well. Actually, calling someone out like this on a website without knocking on the door and talking to the person face to face would be classified as cowardice in my book.
And my name is spelled EVERTSEN thank you.
I one upped his request for a phone call and offered to meet him in person. just sayin
Dave said he'd'' love to never see another female killed over his dogs''.FOR HELL SAKES QUIT DUMPPING ON THEM .You get a guy there with a tag that doesn't know any better and i say it aint his fault, it's yours.The cwmu operators can't kill lions for killing deer.The ADC can't legally kill them unless they are killing livestock and if they are killinglivestock then kill them . You can try to justify it any way you want but the bottom line is YOU ARE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE.If you say your a houndsman then start acting like one.You know what our lion po[pulation is like,there isn't 2 good toms a year killed on the whole cache and the same for ogden .Last winter when you were sitting on a 70 lb female kitten track ,waiting for your hunter to show up pretty well showed me what kind of a houndsman you are.Our quota hasn't filled in years and every time we start seeing few lions start showing up we'll get a snow and you and a couple of others will show up and kill them.The CWMU operators are getting rich at the expense of what you say you''love and are passionate about''.I 've hunted the CWMU in cache county you come up and hunt for 22 years . Used to be the best lion country around and always plenty of deer now just plenty of deer.
In a nut shell, there are 3 types of lion populations - source, stable and sink. Source populations are where excess lions are moving out, stable is where the numbers of lions are at the most they can be for the habitat available based on prey densities, terrain, etc. and sink areas are where those numbers are less than they could be and therefore lions are moving in. Studies say that a 15% harvest is sustainable for a stable population. Less than 15%, and that area will be a source area – more than 15%, and that area is a sink area. If you hunt a sink area, and there is a good source area nearby, you can probably kill about every lion you tree and lions will repopulate from a source area. BUT, there has to be a good source area nearby, such as a wilderness or large roadless tract of land where lions cannot be over hunted. Ideally there should be a balance of all 3. Too many sink areas and lion numbers will be in the toilet. Likewise, too many source areas and lions will self regulate (like CA, OR, and WA) - lions will be killing lions, taking over less than desirable home ranges like in people’s back yards or moving from their natural prey base to livestock. Studies have shown that anywhere from 75 - 90% of the females have young or are pregnant. So when a young healthy female is killed, most likely you didn’t kill just one lion. The old non breeding females are prime candidates for the taking because they are non breeding and also because they are occupying a prime range that a breeding female could have. Harvest of these females is good and biologically sound. So, how to you tell whether you are in a source, sink or stable population since lion numbers are very difficult to determine? Source and stable areas should have a good diversity in the age of cats. Sink areas will be mostly all young cats that have just moved in because they are the subs coming from a source area. Biologists base these principles largely on a “whole”. Only you can help micro manage your particular area.
I think a lot of the current problems in lion mgmt are state game agancies caving into the political pressures. In Montana, the lions are the whipping posts because the state cannot manage wolves. In Utah, I would guess that protecting those trophy bucks and bulls plays heavy with the state’s game agency.
A good read is "Cougar Ecology and Conservation" by Maurice Hornocker and Sharon Negri
Last edited by catdogs on Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Once you go black, you'll never go back! Duncan big game Black and Tans.
catdogs wrote:So, how to you tell whether you are in a source, sink or stable population since lion numbers are very difficult to determine?
Well, you know you have entered a sink area when you just passed a sign that read "Welcome to Utah....Life Elevated"
I am well on the way to catchin my 30 for the year and I don't think I have treed the same cat twice. I work full time and have 3 kids. have you ever thought of venturing out from under your rock and looking for a better place to cut roads or walk canyons? sounds like you don't have the drive it takes to get er done
"Houndn'Ems Blueticks" if it smells like a cat, they'll catch it.
catdogs wrote:So, how to you tell whether you are in a source, sink or stable population since lion numbers are very difficult to determine?
Well, you know you have entered a sink area when you just passed a sign that read "Welcome to Utah....Life Elevated"
I am well on the way to catchin my 30 for the year and I don't think I have treed the same cat twice. I work full time and have 3 kids. have you ever thought of venturing out from under your rock and looking for a better place to cut roads or walk canyons? sounds like you don't have the drive it takes to get er done
Good post catdog.......here in utah last year our adult female and subadult totaled out to be around 47%......But our dwr over looks subadult female harvest so that way our lion permits are not decresed here in the state......there is so much pressure on our dwr from the sprortsmen for fish and wildlife that they don't dare upset them.....so basically our state dwr is being bought off by supposed sportsmen but infact they are just a bunch of no nuthing about management deer and elk hunters with a lot of money...so in a nut shell with that big of female harvest.....the lion population here in utah is on a major decrese......Some true HOUNDSMEN here it the state need to stick together and stand up for our sport
I am well on the way to catchin my 30 for the year and I don't think I have treed the same cat twice. I work full time and have 3 kids. have you ever thought of venturing out from under your rock and looking for a better place to cut roads or walk canyons? sounds like you don't have the drive it takes to get er done [/quote]
come to northern Utah and try treeing that many.[/quote]
I'll bet your less distance to where I hunt from where your at then from where I'm at. quit bangin your head against the wall and venture out and find a good place to hunt.
"Houndn'Ems Blueticks" if it smells like a cat, they'll catch it.
Catdogs Very well said. There is no question that lion management has become political rather than bioligical, in so many areas over the past several years. As I mentioned in an earlier post our wildlife department here in Alberta is now taking action to kill lions because they feel the female quota needs to be harvested, and I can not say I disagree with that. Over the past few years that quota has not been achieved in many of our lion units for several reasons, and that has caused them to step in with new regulations. IF they moniter and keep close check on this, it may not be a bad thing. Time will tell. Thanks for that good bit of info. Where in MT. are you at? I have to head down that way in a couple weeks and am planning to go to the Cougar Workshop in Bozman in May, maybe there's a chance to get together.
Houndnem Im not banging my head against the wall, you sound like you think the lions are doing fine in Utah. no disrespect intended, do you believe that the lion population is at a sustainable level? And I will get out and hunt some different areas, when I am ready. but being as I have only hunted for one year as Dave has pointed out a few times I like to stick to the areas I already know, call it what you will that is fine. But I cannot afford to drive all over the state hunting areas I have never been.
I am well on the way to catchin my 30 for the year and I don't think I have treed the same cat twice. I work full time and have 3 kids. have you ever thought of venturing out from under your rock and looking for a better place to cut roads or walk canyons? sounds like you don't have the drive it takes to get er done [/quote]
Congratulations, You must truley be the "Real Deal" maybe even the second comming of "Ike". I, like many others on this post am just a mer mortal. Living under my "Rock", never venturing out, never walking canyons. Yep, you've got me pegged.
