female killers

[rebel2]

we had an outfitter kill 4 females in one drainage this. year. one female had 2 kittens. now theres two kittens running around with no mom. Great choice to shoot those females. now the way i see it that area has lost 12 plus cats for the next 2 years as some of thos shes might been pregnant or had kittens stashed somewere. IM not affraid too it cause it time to let ppl know whos doing it. nathan kelly and Vince cocciollo. Like catdogs said, his hunters know that there will be no females shot even before they are arrive.Yes we have a female quota here in BC, and its reached by incidentalls almost every year.But our governments doesnt wanna count incidentals here now.Ive hunted long enough to know when you shot a female you just shot yourself in the foot. You outfitters should take a page outa catdogs, chilcottonhillbillys, and B&Tman books and maybe you wont have to shoot a female anymore, cause every female u shoot will produce a tom kitten within 2 years. Timothy, good on you for calling them out!! My 2 yr old has more ethics then you female killers.

[black eye]

sackett,
I will not derail this post on how to recover Utahs deer. The UHA is a hound club, not deer nor coyote. To help the udwr with coyotes would be nice but, they are SO DEEP IN BED with the SFW who has been the driving force to DESTROY our lions.

WE DONT HAVE ENOUGH $$$$$$$$ to have a vote with the udwr!!!
Let it be said again 15 YEARS OF AGGRESSIVE lion harvest and ZERO RESULTS!!!!!!

BACK OFF MY SPORT!!!!!

Now back on the topic THE udwr and sfw sell the permits of insanity!!!
Lets talk about who pulls the trigger????

What do you guys think????

[Sackett]

sackett,

BACK OFF MY SPORT!!!!!

What do you guys think????

And who told you that it was your sport and not mine?

[hounddude]

I've followed this post for awhile. We have problems here but thank god SFW don't run our Fish & Game.

I'd say your problem is anyone can guide that wants to. Everyone & there dog want to make some money off a very limited sport!

There's always the new guys that gets everyone to look for tracks. They kill everything they tree. There in it afew years and usually quit.

To me it's frustrating the lack of respect that's shown to lions. It's impossible to make laws to control poor ethics!

If I lived in Utah I'd try to limit guiding & get rid of all the tags they take away from sportmen & women & sell in the name of Habitat.

Every other guys selling information on trophy animals to guides. So he can get his clients to bid on the tags. It's no wonder the hunting for average Joe sucks.

Good luck. Mark

[black eye]

sackett,
It is your sport as well, show up to udwr meeting and represent your views.

We have polled our membership and by great majority the opinion says lion hunting in this state is poor at best.

If you think otherwise show up and voice your opinion. I'v been there for 6 years and we have not met yet??

[csl]

I have been watching this for awhile and I understand that people are mad about other hunters killing females and that you would rather have just tom units but I just keep thinking about this if you kill all the toms what is going to breed those females that are left there has to be both females and toms killed to keep a balance in my opinion. Its just like the deer herds in utah they are down because the udwr over sells tags and they are killing all the bucks without the bucks whats going to breed the doe's. I think the best thing udwr could do is close down units to harvisting after so many females have been killed for example if you have 8 tags for a unit and they kill 4 females off of it close it for the rest of the year and I think that would stop some people from killing females just for the fact it would close down the units early to harvisting thats just my opinion.

[Sackett]

Blackeye,
You said yourself the driving force behind the DWR and the SFW is to recover the deer herd and SAVE the sheep units. Until that is accomplished there will be no mercy on utahs lion population. If you want to save the lions start smoking coyotes. You will probably never meet me at one of your meetings as I choose to let my voice be heard on a different level. However we do share a common sport one I hope lives on for future generations to enjoy as we have. Hopefully we can open our eyes and look at the larger picture here and not let our selfishness destroy a great sport and way of life.

[B/T]

we had an outfitter kill 4 females in one drainage this. year. one female had 2 kittens. now theres two kittens running around with no mom. Great choice to shoot those females. now the way i see it that area has lost 12 plus cats for the next 2 years as some of thos shes might been pregnant or had kittens stashed somewere. IM not affraid too it cause it time to let ppl know whos doing it. nathan kelly and Vince cocciollo. Like catdogs said, his hunters know that there will be no females shot even before they are arrive.Yes we have a female quota here in BC, and its reached by incidentalls almost every year.But our governments doesnt wanna count incidentals here now.Ive hunted long enough to know when you shot a female you just shot yourself in the foot. You outfitters should take a page outa catdogs, chilcottonhillbillys, and B&Tman books and maybe you wont have to shoot a female anymore, cause every female u shoot will produce a tom kitten within 2 years. Timothy, good on you for calling them out!! My 2 yr old has more ethics then you female killers.

So curious as to what the COs said or did when you turned him in for running females with kittens.
Im surprised he still is outfitting actually with some of the stuff he has done.
Yup its a shame they took the incidental and problem females off the quota a dead cat is a dead cat, but Im guessing it may have been the houndsman them selves that caused that they didnt like there chance to kill a cat taken away.
Its not only the females theres to many cats in general being shot in some MUs you want to do something about it, push to get the accompany permits shut down to many guys taking out of province people out(maybe even a bit of illegal guiding going on) and it is quit often the same guys doing it.
And incase you didnt know chilcotenhillbilly shoot a female last year.

[fats]

good job timothy and thanks buddy for letting this post be now how many names we up to

[Plotts]

The bottom line is that as long as it is legal to harvest females there is not much of a leg to stand on.

You cant change the culture, you have to change the rules.

[timothy]

The bottom line is that as long as it is legal to harvest females there is not much of a leg to stand on.

You cant change the culture, you have to change the rules.

Thats liberal talk... lol

[rebel2]

I am aware that chilcoin hillbilly killed a female.......................it killed his dog. I have the numbers for the cats killed in region four. Permit holders kill maybe 5% of tom, not females.oufitters killed 47% this year. locals killed the rest. over 100 cats killed there this year. It is wrong that any outfitter can bring in 6-8 cat hunters a year.They should be on a quota system that allows 2 cats per area.It also depends on the morales of the houndsmen and what hes gonns let die over his dogs, and lately there isnt very good morales around here.JMO.How can places like Alberta grow giant toms year after year????? Proper management. Plain and simple. we have a 35 female quota or somthing stupid like that, no tom quota.To me thats a reason to decimate the population, not control.JMO again. If 80 % of the houndsmen got on the no black dot dont shoot horse, the other 20% might open their eyes too. Yes I agree females need to be killed to balance the population. We have enough incidentals every year to make up for it and with guys like vince and nathan they will have them all taken care of in the next 4 years anyways......................

[black eye]

sackett,
I have never heard any houndsmen ever concerned with the sheep population. Guides that profits from all those big money sheep are concerned.

So am I safe to assume you would harvest a little female to protect deer and sheep?

The udwr meetings are PUBLIC not mine. Your different level is?

The drastic decline of utah lion population is what we are concerned with so our kids can have a future in the sport.

We think it is selfish to destroy a lion population so high dollar sheep tags can be sold or drawn with 30 years of points.

How about this we agree to disagree?
Peace

[Bplott]

The miss management of the lion population has definately NOT helped any of our deer herds, by over harvesting females like is happening now is going to insure a real slow rebound to our once outstanding and stable lion population.....as houndsmen we need to police ourselfs and NOT kill females weather its legal or not.......MISS MANAGEMENT by dwr is no excuse for killing females and kittens....they are not a trophy

[Sackett]

I might would harvest a female.....if i felt like it....... But it damn sure wouldn't be to rescue a sheep or deer. Here is the point I am trying to make- As long as the Div feels like they don't have enough deer they will wage open season on lions. As long as there is open season on lions there will be people lined up to harvest them tom and female alike. The only way the Div will ever back off of the lion harvest is if they see the deer herds increase. The only way to increase the deer herd it to slaughter coyotes. So go shoot some coyotes save some deer take the pressure of the lions all at the same time.