Lion Population views on TV Utah

[Sackett]

Roughin' It Outdoors can do a show on them next and what heroes they are for all the deer they saved.

It was probably this guy that ran down that bitch and killed, he is a hero after all!!!

[tonyabbott]

cya the 7th

Tony Abbott

[Sackett]

Sorry Tony but I didn't see that post til now.....

[Bplott]

Tony,
Do you agree or disagree that female harvest needs to be managed here in utah? Either by female subquota or sub adult and adult females counted in there harvest data?

[tonyabbott]

cya on the 7th


Tony Abbott

[timothy]

That sounds like a very fair question, and should be a easy answer. no disrespect intended to anyone but it is what it is.

[Sackett]

Maybe we should adopt a new rule saying if a hounddogger takes a female (or allows anybody to harvest a female) over their hounds that they forfeit their pursuit permit for the next two years..........I'll bet that stops or slows down the bitch killing!

[Kevin D]

Tony, let me tell you how you come across from this houndsman's perspective:

All the collected data by the DWR seems to indicate the the state's cougar population is in decline, which also happens to correspond to what I am seeing with my own eyes. Yet, you choose to find one of the few houndsmen in the state that tells you otherwise and you put them in the spotlight. That, and given some of your posts in other forums reveals an obvious bias. This creates a credibility gap in my mind and probably the minds of most houndsmen as well.......the data isn't supporting your view so you seek out someone that tells you what you want to hear truth be damned.

Why would the Robbs tell you the lion population in their area is increasing?? Well, you gotta remember that they are in the business of selling hunts. Would you tell a prospective client the hunting in your area sucks and is getting worse?? Probably not if your paycheck and livelihood depended on it. You ought to know as well as I that these boys are hardly an unbiased source.

Every deer hunter that drives the roads for a week and doesn't kill a nice buck is going to fault one of two things for their lack of success; mismanagement by the DWR, or the over abundance of predators. It seems to me that you are unjustifiably perpetuating the latter.

[tonyabbott]

Cya the 7th

tony abbott

[houndnem]

tony, when you say the lion population is somewhere between what we say and what the dwr says, what is that based on? do you have a personal count on them? not trying to come across as a smart a$$ and I mean no disrespect in my question. I probably spend as much time in the hills as anybody, I know we still have lions. they're not on the verge of extinction, but when the average size, age, and sex of cats harvested is 70lbs 1.5 years old and female it is frustrating. all of our trophy cat units have dwindled to units where your lucky if you can find a cat to hunt. we choose cats to hunt, some choose deer. I like to hunt both and think that the amount of money I spend doing it I should have at least a chance at a trophy when I go out. if the lions were where they were back in 2000 I don't think you would hear people freaking out because that guy shot a female. I don't think people were trying to take away from that mans hunt, they just wish the lions could make a little rebound. I don't know who you are, but if you are a deer hunter, how would you feel if you could drive 10 tanks of gas out just to get the chance to take a picture of a doe and there were people just dumpin does fawns and forkys everwhere you turned around?

[Bearkiller]

how would you feel if you could drive 10 tanks of gas out just to get the chance to take a picture of a doe and there were people just dumpin does fawns and forkys everwhere you turned around?

That sounds like the average general deer unit in Utah. BTW, he's going to tell you to quit driving and start walking.

[Neff]

Kevin,

So bring the little bow wow houndawg and both of you come on the program and make a positive contribution or leave me out of the discussion. It's your choice be allies or enemies.

I don't think that comment was necessary.

[Tyler T.]

Very well put Houndnem! One of the points on the show that night that really pissed me and a few of the local houndsmen off, was when cats and bears outfitters was asked the question "if he thought the lions were on the decrease? Cats and Bears outfitters response to the question was "No, if anything the lions are on the increase! " What a stupid and incorrect Comment! Now all the general deer hunters watching the show will continue to think the lions are on the increase! I think the Utah houndsmen association got a good word in thanks to Black Eye!

[tonyabbott]

Cya the 7th

tony abbott

[sourdough]

I have no dog in this fight! other than I am a houndsmen. Yet I wonder how a "professional" such as yourself can get on here with a clear conscience an put people on the defense over their views, on a subject, they hold dear to themselves? I have never seen a true "professional" worry one way or the other about those that are critical of their views or stand points. Yet your here to call those out...

You want to debate the issues, although you have reduced yourself to calling those that are critical, ignorant and selfish.

What kind of environment would they face on your program?

The debate over predator management will continue to be a hot subject through out the west... There is no doubt that lions impact deer numbers when they are as low as they are today. The coyote, bear, bobcat, eagle and the ever increasing and expanding wolf population are also having a impact on struggling herds and will continue to keep number from rebounding. killing every predator if ever possible will not catapult deer number to historic highs. A side from the wolf and eagle the other above predators will remain the whipping post for the powerful deer hunting lobby as it is the cheapest solution to the problem that does net some results. Yet, I will say that the increases of deer will be small for the price. No real progress will ever be made without addressing the big picture.

I think I will stick to pissing and moaning on this venue. It doesn't pay for shit, but at least I know who I'm dealing with, a bunch of uneducated, ignorant, selfish houndsmen that want no deer and more lion, which is a oxymoron.

Sourdough