Lion Population views on TV Utah

[tonyabbott]

cya the 7th

tony abbott

[hyde]

Hey guys I'm up here in Idaho, and would love it if someone could provide a way for me to watch the program that was aired on T.V. We have the same problems, and from the sounds of it, I too will be disgusted. However, I would like to watch it. That way I can make my own opinion.

[Sackett]

...

What happen to this post dawg? surely this wasn't the post that you were slamming that outfitter for killing the bitch last weekend with kittens is it?

[sourdough]

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What happen to this post dawg? surely this wasn't the post that you were slamming that outfitter for killing the bitch last weekend with kittens is it?

Another post from the drama queen! From the words of your pseudonym stick to topic!

sourdough

[Sackett]

...

What happen to this post dawg? surely this wasn't the post that you were slamming that outfitter for killing the bitch last weekend with kittens is it?

Another post from the drama queen! From the words of your pseudonym stick to topic!

sourdough

You been lookin in the mirror again sourdough? And by the way, ol' dawg was the one that started the drama queen chit when he slammed that outfitter by name and claimed they had started a bitch with kittens over the weekend and killed them. So was dawg a liar and had to recant? did a bitch even die? I suppose somebody threatened a lawsuit for slander is why he deleted his post, so much for the drama!

[sourdough]

Sourdough you have missed the entire point of the conversation. I have not once put anyone down for their views on lion management. In fact if you would read everything you would see i agree there should be some sort of female quota.

I only came on and blasted those that chose to blast me 1st and without cause. Once I was proclaimed "the worst enemy for lions in the state" and that my radio show was "Idiotic" I responded with my thoughts towards them and an invitation to bring their knowledge and opinions on my show FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE of charge or obligation.

So your response here was ignorant as to what transpired. MY program can be a great tool for the houndsmen and it sounds as though a couple of you will come in to discuss things. I am grateful for that and look forward to it.

I am not a lion hater and I NEVER have and NEVER will blame lions for the demise of the mule deer population. There is no where that I have EVER said that and you wont hear me say that.

I am a conservationist and a hunter and I have a program I have built with my own money and my own education and my own time that can be a great tool for you and every other hunter out there if they choose.

So if you are going to criticize me for what I actually said then you need to do the same to those that threw the 1st punch. Mine was after a couple guys popped off and ran their mouths like they are so good at doing. Now You are invited to come in studio as well and participate if you choose, or you can call in or you can just vent on here. But the facts are that I responded to the houndsmen and then I offered a venue for them to speak their opinions. I did all of this expecting and wanting nothing back in return.

Those are the facts.

Sorry for quoting your whole post, but I felt I needed it in front of me to address it.

I really haven't missed the entire point of this conversation or the other topic you started in relationship to this one. My problem is with the defensive nature of your comment, not that I feel that a man hasn't the Right to defined himself, But over what?

You're right. I am ignorant to your Radio show, No doubt about it. What I am not ignorant about is your inflammatory statements. "you people are ridiculous", "dickhead approach", "Ignorant", "selfish", "uneducated comments." You stated that you have 18,000 listener, that's good, why not want 18,000 more?

I don't believe, I criticized you. Just your approach. Hell If I got pissed off at every critical statement directed towards me I would be out of here, pronto.

You offered up a venue to the houndsmen of Utah. I agree, it is a great opportunity to voice an opinion and hope that one steps up to the plate that can articulate the message of the Utah houndsmen based on fact and not emotion or economics, as for the comments I have read, including yours. Emotion has been the trigger to this debate.

You are registered on this sight why not voice an opinion on here and allow folks to comment? I see your times worth nothing when it comes to your own ego. People will either like it, love it, hate it, or leave it alone.

sourdough

[pegleg]

Sourdough, Isn't odd how a guy no one out side of a small region of Utah, has heard of. Has all the answers to lion numbers, and their management needs? Yet all houndsmen are ignorant and uneducated. among many other derogatory euphemisms. I thought damn this guy must really be something in the hunting community. To have that kind of information on lion numbers and to be "involved in wildlife management across the western US." , "The coaches hunting buddy" that is about all I could find out about him. Of course one statement was his own. Here is one other non BGH quote I could track down credited to him "She thinks she's God in her courtroom," said hunting advocate Tony Abbott,". how does that compare to this statement? "He thinks he's God on Utah am radio"
I have always found the superiority of deer shooters strange. Or those real oddities of the hunting community! Waterfowl hunters coming out to set in a mud hole or pile of brush staring at the sky for hours on end. They come out of suburbia once a year for a few weekends maybe a whole week and in that time develop a accurate in depth management plan for all the wildlife ills of the nation. It's not the time in the field but the quality of that time, right? Yet they can't control those pesky predators? Isn't hunting the enjoyment of the successes of sound management?
I know we could go on with these sweeping statements for days. The thought of coming across like some of those folks posting on here with solid numbers of 99% and 18,000, causes me to rethink THAT strategy.
Now If Mr. Abbott has done anything to support houndsmen in Utah or any other state willingly or accidentally I sure appreciate it. The problem I have is when someone develops a superiority complex over his ability to talk. With out some understanding it's just howling in the night. Is there a Tri-Tronics rep in Utah?

I am a houndsmen and I know I've never had the privilege of Mr. Abbott's acquaintance.

[Kevin D]

Selfish Tony?? More or less so than you ass clown deer hunters??

Deer hunters piss and moan about low deer numbers yet when houndsmen piss and moan about low cougar numbers suddenly we are being selfish?? Sorry Tony, but that makes no sense.

Tony, for the last 15 years we've been asked to sacrifice the lion population for the sake of improving the deer herd and for what?? What has improved?? The deer population continues to struggle despite the hundreds of dead lions and lost opportunities for us houndsmen. At some point, any rational person HAS to conclude that killing lions to bring back the deer herd hasn't worked in the past and is unlikely to work in the future. Yet you are among those that persist in going down this same dead end trail.

So, if raising the alarm that the sportsmen of Utah are being sold a bum steer and that makes me selfish, then so be it.

[tonyabbott]

cya the 7th

tony abbott

[fstop]

Hey Houndsmen,
I thought I'd log onto this site and give you some insight on why I aired the story on Mountain Lion Management in Utah. But first....

Tony Abbott was a guest on Roughin' It Outdoors and his opinions do not represent KUTV, Roughin' It Outdoors and or Adam Eakle. Tony is opinionated and that is his job. But, it is not mine. As an outdoor reporter, my job is to report, give the opinions of others and allow the public to decide.

In this case, both Outfitters gave their opinions on the cougar population in Utah. After attending many R.A.C. meetings, I knew this wasn't the opinion of everyone, especially houndsmen. So, I went to the D.W.R. for their insight and management practices and then finally to the Utah Houndsmen Association for their opinion. I think Chad Coburn, (Utah Houndsmen Board Member) represented houndsmen in the state professionally and accurately. I knew Chad from a previous story and trusted him...Still do. I also knew from Chad that this would be a heated topic and welcome any comments about the show. I understand the debate about female lions and the lion that was taken on the show. But again, it's not for me to decide if it is right or wrong but just to report what happens.

Feel free to contact me anytime. I would consider another story related to this topic and would once again give the Utah Houndsmen Association the opportunity to voice their concerns.

Sincerely,

Adam Eakle
KUTV Outdoor Reporter
eakleab@kutv2.com
801-839-1239

[Buddyw]

Dear Utah....

You guys have brought in the Radio guys.. Now the TV guys are here..

If you start bringing in the lawyers and politicians, (no offense C2) I'm going to bann the whole state of utah......

Carry on gentleman!

[Bearkiller]

Buddy, I think they're really here for the pictures of hounddawg in his spandex.

[hunt14]

Hey Houndsmen,
I thought I'd log onto this site and give you some insight on why I aired the story on Mountain Lion Management in Utah. But first....

Tony Abbott was a guest on Roughin' It Outdoors and his opinions do not represent KUTV, Roughin' It Outdoors and or Adam Eakle. Tony is opinionated and that is his job. But, it is not mine. As an outdoor reporter, my job is to report, give the opinions of others and allow the public to decide.

In this case, both Outfitters gave their opinions on the cougar population in Utah. After attending many R.A.C. meetings, I knew this wasn't the opinion of everyone, especially houndsmen. So, I went to the D.W.R. for their insight and management practices and then finally to the Utah Houndsmen Association for their opinion. I think Chad Coburn, (Utah Houndsmen Board Member) represented houndsmen in the state professionally and accurately. I knew Chad from a previous story and trusted him...Still do. I also knew from Chad that this would be a heated topic and welcome any comments about the show. I understand the debate about female lions and the lion that was taken on the show. But again, it's not for me to decide if it is right or wrong but just to report what happens.

Feel free to contact me anytime. I would consider another story related to this topic and would once again give the Utah Houndsmen Association the opportunity to voice their concerns.

Sincerely,

Adam Eakle
KUTV Outdoor Reporter
eakleab@kutv2.com
801-839-1239

A true professional on and off the air!

Adam, in case you get back on here and read this, thank you for logging on and telling us your side of the story and being classy about it. Thank you for seeking out the UHA (Chad) for comments on the last show. I try and catch 'Roughin it Outdoors' every chance I get and hunt a variety of species, not just lions. However lions get blamed for too much and as you can see this is a touchy subject for those of us who feel that the future of the lion population is in even more danger than it is now and we feel it's pretty bad as it is.The majority of lion hunters who have nothing to protect (such as selling hunts or advertisement) will say without hesitation that the lion population is declining and has been for better than 10 yrs. and if we don't stand up and change a few things about how our lions are being managed then we will most likely be looking and much bigger problems in the future with drastically low numbers and even losing some privileges.

Respectfully,
Reagan Myers

P.S. I sent you an email about the show

[Kevin D]

And Kevin remind me where I have put in writing or have said I am the god of Lion management? Tell me where in this post I have said much of anything about lion management other than there is probably more lions then the lion guys think and less then the dwr think.... Oh wait I did also say I think a female quota would be good.

Tony, I'll be honest, I have never listened to your radio program so most of what I know comes from posts you've made on the internet. The one I was thinking of specifically was the one you made last fall on MonsterMulies where you said that killing an additional 3 lions on every management unit would compensate for the 15,000 deer tags the Wildlife Board cut out.

That idea goes back to idea that 1 lion kills 52 deer/year, multiplied by the 3 lions per unit, times the 29 units......or 4,524 deer saved, which would be about right for 15,000 tags if the harvest rate was around 30%. The flaw in this argument, as I pointed out back then, is that these numbers can ONLY hold up if these 4,524 deer saved were all bucks and none succumbed to death by any other cause in the mean time.....that all these deer saved from death by lion lived through to be harvested by hunters.

That theory is pure fantasy, it can't and doesn't hold up in the real world. One would have to be incredibly stupid not to see that or have an anti-cougar agenda. I apologize if I assumed the latter Tony.

In all actuality Tony, we probably agree on more things than we disagree on when it comes to wildlife management. But when it appears to me you are offering out poison Kool-Aid to the masses, I will publically disagree.

[pegleg]

Of course it should be, and I agree with that but that is not the issue with this topic. I have a forum in the way of my radio program that would be perfect for that discussion. But I won't sit silently by while the Houndsmen bash me or Adam for bringing awareness to Utah's Mountain lions.

You want to make a difference then do it professionally and the right way. You want to start a fight then you better know who and what you are fighting and you better be ready to get bloody doing it.

The offer is here for you guys.

Tony Abbott