Decline of the bluetick hound.

[Lost River]

YOU And how do you get a hot nosed hound you cant breed out the nose.

I am intersted in your perspective on this. If you can't breed cold nose ability out, then how can you breed for a colder nose? Not trying to start a fight or anything, just interested in your thoughts. Casey

[cmogi10]

Man, this must be why my pup is such a stinker. Knew I shoulda got one of them walker dogs.

[liontracker]

YOU And how do you get a hot nosed hound you cant breed out the nose.

I am intersted in your perspective on this. If you can't breed cold nose ability out, then how can you breed for a colder nose? Not trying to start a fight or anything, just interested in your thoughts. Casey

I am interested as well. I assumed that the decline that Mike originally posted on was nose.

[Oldmanindeepsnow]

You guys tell me how to breed out the nose. I cant see any way to get it done the average hound can run a track that will take you days to get to tree.
I have always bred for track speed locateing abality and brains the nose is developed by putting pups down on old tracks, I have led young dogs on tracks letting them smell one track at a time'
I dont want make any body mad but I cant see any way to get it done.

[liontracker]

So, from the few sentences you have posted, I gather that your opinion is, that the coldness of the nose is due the the ability of the trainer? I was wondering then, if you were to keep an entire litter of your line, raise and train them all up exactly the same, would they all finish out with identical nose power?

[mnb&t]

whatever happened to those big retarded french dogs that were gonna "revolutionize" cold trailing and when crossed put a better "nose" on hounds.

i have one upson bred bluetick and wouldnt want any colder nose than hes got. then again i dont hunt in fantasy land just the real world.

[liontracker]

whatever happened to those big retarded french dogs that were gonna "revolutionize" cold trailing and when crossed put a better "nose" on hounds.

Dude...what's up with that? Wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what? Go ahead and "laugh out loud" under the guise of "humor" all you want, just remember that he who laugh's last... laugh's loudest, and I WILL have the last laugh on this one.

To answer your question, they are doing exactly that. They are finally getting into the hands of people with the experience and expertice to pass judgement on them, like Gods themselves, to the hounddog world. So, if this arena was not such a "secret society", then you and everyone else that hunts and pecks on a keyboard would be in the know. Meanwhile, word of mouth is spreading amongst outfitters and serious men who are hunting them...and that word is...and I quote from an outfitter who has caught more dryground lions than most will ever see..."that people should start paying attention, as they are filthy cold, track driving machines".

You frickin' ehh I am sick of being attacked on here.....now go change your tampon!LOL

P.S. - Thanks for trashing this post....

[cougarhound]

yup was a good read until some asshole crashed the party..

[Oldmanindeepsnow]

Ok guys in my breeding I look for bad traits in a pair of dogs before there put tougher to make a cross. I look for drive, tracking locating and treeing abilty. But if parents have traits I dont like the cross is not made. If the dog has no desire to run all day and quits at noon what good is he if he cant find a bobcat in thick pines he still no good treeing and leaving is not good eather.
I do all this and the nose takes care of it self. When pups are srarting to track old dogs are left home, With our lion population in utah being what it is if I dont run old tracks I go home. We have the wildernees act that closed most of our roads making for long hikes.
I think that dogs all have about the same nose in training it is brougth out letting them know what is expected of them. And instilling confidence to get the job done.

[Oldmanindeepsnow]

Alright guys heres my last post on this subject.
To say the bluetick od declineing is a slap in the face to every breeder that has put 20 to 30 years into there dogs.
If it snows in utah on friday we stay home on saturday You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a hound box. It gets crowded. But if you wait till the sidehills melt off there is only a few of us out there.
The coldest nose will not catch game if it is not developed and the dog is not given the chance and confdence to get it done.
As for the dog that has to have a ten minute coon track to hunt will not eat food at my kennel. Im not going to get into genectics that is another can of worms and genes are funny critters.

[liontracker]

oldman...check your PM's

[Lost River]

Oldman,
I didn't take any offense by your observation or opinion. I really think what makes this doggin thing great is what is one person horse turd is another man's jewel. I guess what I am saying is what one man does with a breeding program and another man does can be 180 degrees off and both will be pleased with their result.
I think our opinions may be different on breeding nose. I think a dogs nose is no different than his size, color, ear length or voice. I know two men whose dogs came from the same couple gents dogs 40 years previous. Both had similar nose but their dogs trended about 25 lbs apart. One of the fellas prefered bigger dogs and bred the females that were a bit bigger to the bigger males. The other bred the smaller dogs. Both men had very few outcrosses.
All other things seem to stay similar. I believe (I could be way off base) that if that both of them desired a dog that ran only hotter tracks then they would have bred the dogs that worked that way. Both fellas wanted the coldest nose possible and I would say both breeders ended up with dogs that aren't super hard tree dogs. Don't get me wrong, they tree just fine but they don't stand on a tree and bark 100 barks per minute. Occasionally they have a dog that trees super hard, but they bred for the nose not the tree so it seems that trait is there but they didn't place that as a priority of nose.
I think coon dog breeders priority is a dog that has a lot of treeing power and great locators. I sure ain't saying you can't have both because we all know there are dogs out there that have both. What I am saying though is, if a man has two males his pack and one trees harder than the other and the other seems to have a colder nose (or at least the desire and the ability) to work an old track, which ever is his preference is the one that is going to get bred. And hell, over 40 or 50 years his line will show they strengthening or weaking of certain traits. Happy hunting gents, Casey

[Oldmanindeepsnow]

Very well put casey
I just cant sit here and see some breed put down when somebody has put years of breeding into them. No matter the breeding if there not put in the woods there no good.

[Mike Leonard]

Rather odd as threads go and this one is over 2 years old but if you will go back to the first post on this it didn't sat anything about the nose of a hound.

This was started after we had discussed how the redbone is seldom seen these days in most big game packs expecially western big game packs. The rudbone as I discussed as a child were the first cat hounds I hunted with and it seemed if you wanted a cat dog you got a redbone back then.

Well this is a big game forum and it has nothing to do with competition coon hunting or what breed of hound is most popular for that or for coon hunting in general .
We know there are many faboulus competion dogs of all breeds and also good coon dogs but no sense debating that because Treeing Walkers out number all other tree hound breeds combined.

What this was all about for the bluetick was these were the hounds I thought of when I was a kid and thought mountain lions and the Lee Brothers, and other western big game hunters. In fact the Lees were instrumental along with some of the other smentioned before in seperating and making a dfistinct breed of the bluetick aside from the English. But over the years I watched fewer and fewer Registered Blueticks in the western big game hunting fields. Still many, many more than say redbones but percentage wise not nearly as many as say in the 50-60's & 70's.

I know well we have some great breeders of blueticks for big game out there and I would never degrade these fine hounds becasue I love a real hound as much as anybody so this was just a topic for discussion not for a rant about who has the coldest nose.

Most any real hunter that has spent anytime in the puckerbrush knows it takes more than a cold nose to catch big game consistantly. If it didn't we might all be hunting bloodhounds. LOL!

[Lost River]

Gents ,
I agree. You can't choose one or really even two traits and expect to catch game day in and day out. I think most people breed for a balance but most houndsmen have a couple traits that they seem to concentrate on. Each to their own, just like to see people get their dogs out and let them do what they love. Happy hunting, Casey
PS I like them ticked up dogs too.