Francis Baker and Vern Pools Redbones?

[LarryBeggs]

These guys hunted in N.W. Oregon back in the 70's.They treed a lot of bobcat with there dogs.Never have heard any thing about them on here.Just couious if anybody ever hunted with them?Where there dogs came from? Where they whent?Etc. We ran in to them a few times in the woods when I was a kid.Two of the best dogs we had when I was young came out of a red female suposedly out of some of there dogs.

[mike martell]

larry, i just bet butch wheeler could tell you all you want to know about those dogs and hunters...back in the 70's if i remember correctly your dad hunted some red dogs from frank merritt on bobcats on the coast.....i bet most of those old dogs were related....i got hooked on coon hunting back in those days with a dog from old geronimo out of franks redbone line of hounds...frank hunted coons in the day time...trip down memory lane....hey....now we are the old dudes....good meeting you.....mike

[LarryBeggs]

Thanks for the info Mike.When you mentioned Franks name the other day it jared my memory a litttle bit. I rememeber dad bringing up that name before.I always had it in my head those dogs were out Vern and Fransis dogs but ther must have been the conection between them and Frank.I will have to ask dad for a little more info.All those years did go buy fast .We are getting old. Take care Larry

[mark]

Larry, Bill and Gene Paetch may be some others who would possibly know a little about them. They were more into the fox and cats but they knew alot of houndsmen.You would at least get some good stories out of em!

[LarryBeggs]

Mark, I talked to dad and the two dogs I was trying to find out about are different than the Dog that Mike mentioned that came from Frank Merit.Although the dog Mike was thinking about that came from Frank (Topsie) was a good cat dog. We traded her to Jerry Holifield when she got older for these two dogs that I am trying to find out more about.Are Bill and Gene the older couple that was at the field trial the other day? Thanks Larry

[mike martell]

larry....the guy at the field trial was charlie rice....he was sitting with ken craddock....tough bunch of guys in the early days.....and not much different now...better be getting your information soon....time is running down with all the old timers....i just seen where frank gilmore just passed....last time i hunted with frank i was 19 years old and he was giving me hell about not being old enough to know the business end of a hound....hard to believe that was some 35 years ago....mike

[LarryBeggs]

I never new Frank. But Terry at work was telling Frank storys the other day at luch time.I did come up with a little info on those dogs.Apparently Buddy has a female he got from Don out of some of Vern's dogs.I didnt know if any of those dogs were still around.When I was a kid the Topsie dog we got from Frank Merit got mixed in with some of Vern and Francis dogs on a cat race they wound up putting in a old cedar log.A bunch of nice looking red dogs did a good job on that cat.Several years later when we were hunting those plotts a logger from out around P.D. picked up one of them for us.When we went to pick the dog up he had a whole pile of cat hides he had caght with some of those dogs .I dont remember the guys name but that was the last I had ever heard of any of those dogs.That was around the late 80's. Larry

[mark]

Larry,Ask terry about a guy named Jim Glenn he was from the north canyon and was a good houndman.I dont know if he is still alive or not he was in his sixtys in the late seventys but he was one of those guys who seemed like he could live to be 100

[mike martell]

larry....i kinda figured the pieces would fall together....i spent a lot of time hunting predation, damage control bear for champion international back in those days at pee dee creek, ritner cr.and off the 1400 road, bald mountain country. i landed up there first time in 83... most guys only bear hunted back in those days....back then there were fewer cat hunters and more cats....mike

[david]

Larry, I know a little about these dogs and men. I spent many hours with Allen Dunn who had hunted this same circle. He told me many stories, and gave my hungry mind some food.

I hunted the exact same area that Vern hunted, and saw him from time to time. He lived in fall city, in town, and only kept three dogs. All females, and at least two of them were spayed, if not all three. Allen had told me that those guys always hunted females, and the best dogs were always spayed because these men were hunters, not breeders, and they could not be bothered with the heat cycle. That always drove me nuts, and did not seem like a very good way to keep a line going. There are obviously some missing peices that were left out of the story. But I feel blessed to have been allowed any of the story at all.

They did not easily let a dog outside the circle, and in the last days, if it happened at all, I have no knowledge of it. They did not want the dogs to continue with someone else, and I would be very surprised if the line survived their intentions.
Allen Dunn was in the circle, became a close freind of mine, and assured me there was no way I would ever be able to get one of those dogs.

Vern was very reclusive, although married. When we ended up in the same area, he would leave as soon as he knew it, and would not allow me to talk to him. I stopped by his house a couple times before I figured out he wanted to be left alone. His truck would be there with the dogs in the box, but his wife would answer the door and tell me he was gone. He was from a different time and place. I always got the feeling I had zipped back into the days of prohibition and was trying to make contact with a shiner. I was a preacher in the next town, and I think this might have had something to do with my difficulties in ever making contact.

Vern had been a pro boxer in his youth.

The dogs were not redbones, but had their own recipe. Most were red, but red was the dominant color in the strain. The color of red of verns dogs was not the same as the color of most redbones I have seen.

I beleive Francis Baker was already gone at this time. Allen always talked about him, but I never met him, and I am just pretty sure he was already dead. This would have been somewhere around '83. I lived in that area about 4 years, and Vern died durring that time.

The only person I know of that had been counted close enough to get one of those dogs in the final days was Everrett Manor. Vern hunted with Everrett up until his death. I encountered the both of them in the mountains, and I remember the encouncounter vividly. It is not the only day I have ever thought I was about to die, but it is one of them.

Everrett was a government hunter who spurned me also until Vern died. After Verns death, Everett warmed up to me and we became good freinds.
Everett passed on many things to me that Vern had taught him. I have tried to write them down, and also have some of it actually written by Everrett, and given to me.

I saw the dogs hunt, and listened to them from the next ridge many times. Everretts biggest claims about the dogs always had to do with cold trailing ability, and he worked very hard at realizing each dogs potential in this area.

[BlacktailStalker]

Good post David.
Although I know nothing about any of those guys or dogs, it was good to read.

[LarryBeggs]

David, thanks for the info.The two dogs we had I still dont know if they were out of those dogs or not. Dad cant remember for sure what the female was out of.It was 1978 when we got those dogs .I was only 12 years old and I may be remembering wrong.I do remember pretty clearly a few years prior to that having our dog get mixed in with theres on a cat race and trying to get the cat out of a cedar log.I can remember the canyon and the spot on the road we ran into those guys.Those old cedar logs and the slits in the side of those old cedar trees used to be one of those cats favorate places to escape to.I thank you would be hard pressed to find many of those old cedar logs left in that country.They cut them up for shakes and hauled them out with a hellicopter.I remember once when I was pretty young putting a cat in one of those old logs in the snow. That cat was worth quite a bit compared to the wages dad was making at the plywood mill.I remember walking out of that canyon in the snow.I dont think I have ever been that cold.I remember dad putting my bare hands and feet under his shirt to warm them up.Dad left me in the truck and headed back into the canyon with a hatchet to get the cat out of the log.He hit the log one time with the hatchet and broke the head off.He came back to the truck with no cat he wasnt happy.Next day after work he borrowed a chain saw and went back and reteaved the cat.I got off subject there. Kind of fun to remember all the good times I had back then with my dad.Hopfully the reason I hope most of us are hunting now. Take care ,Larry

[mike martell]

larry,
little off topic? who cares...looks like you found out a little on those old dogs....you got me on the cat hunting back in those days and hunting in general...we used to catch many bear in those old hollow cedars as well....some of them cedars were about 6-8' across....we used a chain saw to cut out igloo blocks....then we would crawl inside and go after what we had caught....things got a little western from time to time......that Florance coast country had a bunch.....i see how you can get side tracked....those were the days! i think this is what makes me fight for our rights....i reflect back on the things we took for granted back then and see a next generation hound hunter stuck hunting on national forest land or not at all....
take care, mike

[LarryBeggs]

Mike, I remember some of those old cedar snags were huge.Claw marks all over them where bear had been going in and out of them for years.I know things always change and it wont ever be quite the way it was back then.But it darn sure dosnt have to be as bad as it has gotten now.There are a handfull of smaller timber companys that are still pretty good to work with. I remember treeing a lot of bear for those larger ones back in the 70s and 80s .I dont remember ever having any issues with them.Now most of them around where I grew up wont even consider letting you run hounds.I guess they are afraid of being polliticaly incorect.They dont seem to mind paying some one to snare them and then kicking them over the bank when there done.I guess they must think because its behind locked gates no one will find out.Take care, Larry