Why do the dogs run at the same speed/effort the animal runs

[tomtom]

I was visiting with my dad this evening and got to talking(listening) about cat hunting. I'm getting better and better about how I lure him into the topic. I have heard him wonder aloud many times about why a dog won't run if the animal isn't running. I asked him if he thought the animal(cat) leaves more scent from the weight/adrenal rush of running. He said "Son, your grandpa quit counting cats at 200 when I was a little boy, and he never could tell me why that is, and I've never heard anyone give an answer".

[Dads dogboy]

Tomtom,

Your Dad and Granddad where on the right track I think! Knowing who they were I am not surprised as many a Colorado River Bottom and Hill Country Bobcat died from your folks efforts!

An Ole Saying amoungst Bobcat Hunters when scenting conditions are really BAD is "The Hounds can run the Cat till he stops".

The Hypothesis is that when the Cat stops, it quits leaving as large of a Scent Signature. As long as it is moving (running) it’s body is rubbing against vegetation, it is exposing its claws and the decaying flesh surrounding them are digging into the soil leaving scent, the Cat is breathing harder and faster and may even be slobbering some. All this is leaving SCENT that the Hounds can easily smell and allows them to move the track at a fast speed

When the Cat stops or squats it cuts down on the amount of scent signature that it is leaving. Most Hounds will want to overrun the track and look forward for the track. This is where experienced Hounds teach the youngsters how to play the game.

As the Cat gets its “Wind” back it will commence to move more carefully through the cover, not leaving as much scent. If it has gone back down it’s backtrack(a favorite Bobcat trick) the Hounds will be hesitant to open as they will not want to speak on a “Covered Track”. This is where the CAT Hounds separate from the Hounds that will run a Bobcat!

JMO

CJC

[pegleg]

That is a interesting question and can be read different ways. Here is a little input. A new cat maybe interested or nervous when it first hears hounds. If its in the open in mixed country it will either squat and wait a bit or bolt for the edge of cover where it will slow down maybe even stop to look back now the hounds aren't running hard yet but once they hit that cover if running is possible they will pick up the pace. If it squats who knows what may happen. I ve been fortunate to see a few bobcats before or during the race. I'm ashamed to admit I feel like I learn ten times as much from those instances then a treeD cat. I ve been shocked to see how tight a cat will hold sometimes. Its obvious they're quit confident in their camo. I picked up the habit of when running young dogs and the race sounds good then goes into a loss of riding around the area a bit once they show no progress. Convinced maybe wrongly that the cat is probably within sixty yards. I've had just enough success at it to keep me at it when it happens. It does seem once the cat is running for its life the hounds will be going good at those times it seems the cats only chance is being in better condition then the hounds. Its sure a sport!

[Dads dogboy]

Pegleg,

You point out some very key points in what a Bobcat does!

There are times when Dad’s Pack will make a BAD loose in very heavy cover and it seems like not a Hound can find the Cat.

After a certain amount of time has gone by, and the Hounds can not seem to find where Ole Smarty Cat has gone (because he hasn’t gone anywhere) Dad will have me go into the cover loudly calling the Hounds to me, having me to loudly holler encouragement to the Hounds; what has me doing is making the Cat nervous so that it will try and slip out so that a Hound will smell it and the Race resume.

It is unbelievable how tight a Cat will hold with the Hounds all over it. I know most all of you Cat hunters have seen a Cat come out into a ditch ahead of the Pack….squat and have the Pack run over the top of it. It is amazing just how tight that a Cat will hold.

Here are two pics shot just seconds apart of a Sow Cat holding tight, the Pack literally falling over each other trying to get her, her slipping away to run another hour before treeing. I told about this several years ago in the “Glen’s Hunt” story which just ran in the July Chase magazine.



South Texan can add much more to this Topic!

CJC

[South Texan]

I have seen the dogs trailing all around one area (1/3 to1/2 acre). All around, back over their track,here, there, and back over here again for 30 to 45 minutes. I knew the cat was right there, just slipping around on the dogs and wouldn't run. I walked into the circle where the dogs had been trailing, stood still, in a little bit I seen the cat come slipping by me. I run at the cat, hollered and clapped my hands for the dogs. The dogs know when I do that I have seen the cat and they come a running. I also done it to scare the cat and I also done that. From that point THE RACE WAS ON!!

Someone on here the other day was talking about a cat being able to contain his scent to some degree. As Shorty said the Lee brothers believed it. Some people believe this is hog wash. It might be, I don't know, no way to prove it one way or the other. But when you have been behind some pretty good dogs, that know how to trail and run a cat and you know that cat is just right there, just slipping around but the dogs just can't get him jumped. It will make you believe, to some degree, that a cat can contain his scent. Maybe us dog men believe this just to cover for our dogs. ha.. ha..

If they can contain their scent, that's just a cat being a cat. That's how they are. When you scare one like I said above, I think the cat loses his composure and all containing scent subsides as long as you keep him scared. Meaning you or the dogs. Now if the dogs make a lose while running, the cats going right back to his cat like nature and if he can contain his scent he's going to do it again. But after that little run, your getting him a little warmed up and he won't contain it as well as he did before. Just my thoughts. Happy hunting. Robbie

[pegleg]

Who puts out "chase" what's it primary audience? Are you guys holding out on a good hound magazine?
I believe most beginning hunters and hounds loose a large number of cats that hold tight a cat can do a enormous amount of ducking and dodging in a ten acre area most don't leave this area here unless pushed right to fast they roll over and scratch or climb. Those long races are great fun but hard to come by in real good cat areas, Here. run one in the flat grasslands and your long race odds go way up. I think once a hound gets close enough in the right conditions and is in that scent "cone" the race will speed up whether the cat is actually running at that time or not but other then that there aren't many times that speed of cat doesn't regulate speed of race. This is probably due to the differing life span of the "different" scents left by the cat. I have seen hounds trail a hunting/stalking lion track much faster then it was moving at the time it left them so scent strength or life is the only explanation that seems to make sense. Grey fox seems to differ from season to season as some times of year the young hounds seem to push their luck on them more then other times. I admit I don't pay as much attention to those races or tracks as I probably should just enough to convince me its not a cat but I do get that wrong to. but have been paying attention more the last couple years. maybe someone with more fox running has better insight I just confuse myself most of the time anyway. If a unit or method of measure of scent is ever established we may have a better learning/comparison tool.

[007pennpal]

You gotta make em purrrspire? Run the cat or scare the scent out of him? Maybe, but that's not how I look at it. I've watched cats while sitting on stand. When he is playing his game he's confident and stepping between brush. Cats tend to live life on the sneak. Just like footprints a smart cat can pick steps that hide the path of scent. I believe a cat can "hide" its scent by stepping knowingly. Its hard to sneak when you are running for your life. So walking smarter instead of faster can help the cat win the race.
Sean

[Dads dogboy]

007pennpal,

Very well Said!

Pegleg,

The Chase and the Hunters Horn are the two Magazines for the Running Hound world. 30 years ago both were darn nice Rags, however with the push to "Pen Hunting" They became primarily about Field Trialing and promoting the "Compitition" Style Running Hound. Dad used to have stories in the Hunters Horn back in the late 50s and 60s.

They are also Host to the two major Running Hound Registries! Dad's Hounds are all registered in the International Foxhound Stud Book which is the Chase out of Lexington, KY.

The Chase contacted me about running the Stories that you all have been reading here on BGH and now run one each month.

CJC

[hounddude]

It's sure nice to read knowledgeable houndmens thoughs & opinions. With out egos getting in the way. Thanks for your posts it's a wealth of knowledge for us with lesser experence on bobcats.

Mark

[slowandeasy]

wow, i have not been on here in quite a while. because i had come to the conclusion there were more key board hunters than ones that spend time in the timber. but tom tom this post was a breath of fresh air! their is still a few out there that no the real score. not only is it true that hounds run the speed that their quary is going. but 95% of our loses are because our old faithfuls have over run their noses and the quary is sitting tight laughing. also glad to see more coming around to realizing that fear is directly realated to the fact an animal seems to lose its sent. but not to be confused with over running a hounds nose. these observations only come from time following hounds, not pounding a key board. thanks for restoring faith in a truly good site lots of luck, willie

[tomtom]

Thanks a lot slowandeasy. Right now I am as big a keyboard hunter as anybody on here. I was blessed to say the least to have been able to follow a man in the woods night after tired long night as a child and into adulthood. I have just recently decided that if the dogs are what makes me happy then where there's a will there's a way. I don't have a house in the middle of 10,000 acres stuck in between two state parks with laid back Rangers anymore. I live on 3/10ths of an acre in town and piddle with a dog or two just to feel like yesterday isn't gone. But it is. In other words, I don't want credit for one thing I might accidently type on this forum that would allude to the idea that I have a clue what I'm doing or that I am a houndsman of any kind. I have my ideas and memories and have been trying to apply them to build some kind of hobby that includes dogs chasing an animal and once in a while catching it. Of course, the wealth of information is here, and can be tapped into if you have the basics down. Thanks again and glad I could be part of the conversation. I will be quiet now.

[pegleg]

I had a thought. Now you hurt or scare a dog badly and it has a movement. You run any animal I know of a bit and it'll clean out pretty quick maybe even at a dead run just to lighten the load a bit. Well I can't say for sure whether cats do this or not since I haven't seen convincing proof one way or the other but perhaps its true and could answer a few questions here or there

[Alabama Cathunter]

I dont think the hound run at the same speed that the animal runs! I will explain. I am 55 years old and I have been running hounds 43 years and I always thought the animal you run ran as fast as the hound made him run. When a hound first gets after a piece of game they will run him a little faster than normal but after they run him a while the hounds knock a little of the edge off and the dogs settle down and so do the game. Usually running a fox or a cat he is most times 80 to 100 yards ahead of the pack unless something has cut on the pack and hit out a head right behind the game you are running. Im sure the game runs as fast as the hounds are capable of making it run!

[Dads dogboy]

Pegleg,

What we have found is that a Bobcat, when it gets up out of it’s bed and starts to prowl will Defecate after a very short while. When in Florida where you can easily see a Cat’s track, shortly after coming into a road a Cat will deposit its last meal. Then proceed with its Bobcat business.


This is why Dad likes to Hunt at night as the Cat are usually empty and will run Harder and Longer, making for better Hound Dog Music Concerts!

In the Morning a Cat tends to be full, and as we all know running on a full stomach is difficult.

Now as to a Cat trying to void its bowels ahead of the Hounds; with the Kind of Hounds that South Texan, VAcathunter, Dewey Walton and others put in the woods, this had better not take the Cat long or it suddenly won’t be necessary!

Now two springs ago HuntinTony (Tony Steeleman) from here on BGH came to visit. He managed to talk Dad into taking him for a Hunt(as you all can imagine this was not hard to do). WE jumped a hard running Sow Cat who ran all over the Club before settling down in a BAD Clear cut on both sides of the Tram Rd.

At about the 2 hour mark she came off of the Mtn. side of the road into the headlights of the truck and ran up the road, spewing a Greenish Haze behind her. Tony and I ran up the road to see what it was and found that she excreting a watery, greenish scat from her rectum as she ran. She was a Cat who was in deep distress.

I looked at Tony and said something on the order that the Clay Hounds might not could catch a Cat for him, but he could go back to California and tell the boys that we could sure “Run the Sh-t out of one”.

This is the first time in 50+ years that Dad had observed this, but I am betting that when in distress, other Cats will void their bowels and bladders.

CJC

[hounddude]

I looked at Tony and said something on the order that the Clay Hounds might not could catch a Cat for him, but he could go back to California and tell the boys that we could sure “Run the Sh-t out of one”.

CJC

That's PRICELESS