Price differential

[Ike]

[snowy river black and tan]

How do you keep from getting dogs going every dirction?. I cant run more than four on a bobcat with two being better. Sounds like a cluster f@#! waiting to happen.

[Ike]

[PIGLET]

i will answer the question since everyone are like my hounds and can't stay on track... The answer is there is more money back east.... Out west here most of us houndmen are piss poor we trade work for tracking gear and most us have to have a hunting buddy because we can't afford the gas without splitting the cost. Well maybe not that poor but most of us have puppies and are always bringing a dog or two up so why would we pay more on a hound then we know we spent last year on our kids.. I know a dog jockey that used to send dogs to maine, and north carolina they were good dogs, not culls but back there they would pay $2500 for a dog that couldn't fetch 800 out here. Their are exceptions but i have been around this for 30 years and 800 is the most i've ever payed for a dog and that was cause a buddie was getting divoreced and i was trying to help him out.. I can guarantee you ask most western houndmen on here to buy a good solid dog for $2000 and they will tell you they have three of those dogs so why would i pay that kind of money for another. The guys that used to buy back east had plenty of bank and they wanted instant gratification, not the time it took to try and get a pup to finished..

[PIGLET]

i was talking about this in the 80's so inflation has them to 10k

[timberman]

in reference to hunting bobcats with 25 to 30 dogs we usely road 2 or 3 dogs when they stike good track out of the road will add 5 or 6 more trail dogs when cat i jumped we swing the gate with the rest . Most of the dogs we run fox with in the bean and cotton fields during the summer. Our main goal is to catch him on the ground not tree him but alot go up before being caught. As far as a cluster alot is in the training if they step out of line we usually get on them right quick. AS far as numbers cats never been out west so dont no the numbers there but here they are scattered some places more than others. We hunt all cutovers

[snowy river black and tan]

You must have a lot more open ground than we do. We are lucky to see the race after we start it. Sounds like fun running 30 dogs.

Sorry piglet didnt mean to get off track.

[PIGLET]

no problem, i've hunted 25 or 30 on bear before usually have a smorgasbord of races three dogs running the back track,, two running up and down the road like they are trying to catch it.. 6 or 7 actually running the bear another group smoking a coyote or deer, pickin dogs up here and there and trying to get them back in with the dogs you think are running the bear the right way.. As far as a bobcat 1 dog i think is perfect two if they work together, i can't imagine 5 or more on a bobcat out here they don't leave enough scent for 3 dogs so anymore than that the dogs are having a good old a#@ chasing contest.. But then again my potlickers aren't half the dogs most people on here have..

[snowy river black and tan]

I dont even want to think about leading that many dogs away from a tree. I usualy hunt between 5 and 7 dogs on bear. With 3 of them being my core dogs that usualy do the catching. The rest are young dogs Im trying. When I hunt with my dad we have about 10 dogs, throw in a friend and you have about 15 dogs. What a nightmare. I trained my dogs to heel leaving the tree. I have to drag them off about 300 yards and then let them go. They heel all the way back to the truck. I have to chuckle watching my hunting partner struggle with his dogs trying to get back to the truck. Like a good friend I offer lots of advise without any actuall help.

[timberman]

i guess alot of it is in how u start them out . We usually start riding them in the truck with older dogs aroung 7mo old and hold them in the truck for amonth or so. We also never use a leash try to break them to be called out. Have had a few that bought from other ppl that werent hunted this way from a puppy had to go get. I guess a big part is culling we give them a chance if they want handle sombody else will own them.We just dont have the problem with dogs all over every where somtimes when starting 7 or 8 puppies at one time can be a headache but the broke dogs dont give a problem only thng on their mind is putting their mouth on the game. Guess biggest problem we have is with deer if dog not broke off deer by time it is 2 yrs old usually let one of the deer hunters have them. But i guess everybody got their own way of hunting but for myself nothing like 30 dogs screaming on a big tom cat. Not sure about how many dogs get a smell of the scent but when u put the pressure on him and their hide gets wet they put out a terrible odor

[PIGLET]

it is just a different style of hunting. I grew up being told if you can call your dog off game or tree a bullet is needed. We work on handling like loading and on the leash but when that leash unsnaps they have one thing in mind. I would love to have dogs that i could call off and come when told but the time i have to hunt i don't worry about handling.. b&t normally hunt same way 6 or 7 with 3 or 4 core dogs.. but hunt with three or four buddies and all have 4 or 5 dogs it adds up quick.. I hunt for the social aspect my mutts could probably be better if hunted with less dogs but what fun is it when you don't have a mystery hunt or two...

[timberman]

i guess a hard tree dog might be harder to call out .We usually have a few that will tree the rest kinda hang round the tree waithing. Lot of the cats u catch are on the ground but if theygo up we try to either climb the tree or usa a poll to knock him out to get another run but ocassionaly will have to shoot them out. Most of the dogs we use are running walkers some of the good strike dogs will have a little treeing walker in them but we also run most of the dogs in the summer on gray fox and the tree stock of dogs want hold up as good here in the heat they tend to want to bark behind so we usually leave the bocat strike dogs in the pen during the summer months but not knocking anybodys breed of dog thats just from personal experience.

[PIGLET]

There is a question i have been dying to ask if your dogs run fox will they also run coyote.. If they don't do you have trouble breakin them off of coyote.

[bowhunter7]

i will answer the question since everyone are like my hounds and can't stay on track... The answer is there is more money back east.... Out west here most of us houndmen are piss poor we trade work for tracking gear and most us have to have a hunting buddy because we can't afford the gas without splitting the cost. Well maybe not that poor but most of us have puppies and are always bringing a dog or two up so why would we pay more on a hound then we know we spent last year on our kids.. I know a dog jockey that used to send dogs to maine, and north carolina they were good dogs, not culls but back there they would pay $2500 for a dog that couldn't fetch 800 out here. Their are exceptions but i have been around this for 30 years and 800 is the most i've ever payed for a dog and that was cause a buddie was getting divoreced and i was trying to help him out.. I can guarantee you ask most western houndmen on here to buy a good solid dog for $2000 and they will tell you they have three of those dogs so why would i pay that kind of money for another. The guys that used to buy back east had plenty of bank and they wanted instant gratification, not the time it took to try and get a pup to finished..

I think your off on this one. No one, and I mean no one, that I know of back east is paying the inflated prices for the western bear dogs. Maybe in the 70's peolpe like Dee Demoss were spending outrageous amounts of money on dogs, but not anymore. That's kind of what I'm trying to figure out. Who's buying these dogs, because people east of the Mississippi are not. There are too many good dogs for much less money. Somebody has to be buying them, and my feeling is it is people who can make money off the dogs......outfitters. Even breeders can't make money buying them as a studs because bear dogs don't garner a reputation like competition coonhounds. I mean people don't campaign bear dogs like they do coondogs so it's hard for them to establish a reputation as a must have dog.

Jim

[PIGLET]

I didn't mean that they all went back east but i know in the 80's there was 3 or 4 houndmen in north carolina that bought alot of dogs from this man Also a gentleman from maine named Dan Liberty also the man who ran foggy mtn guides in maine. I know the last 10, 15 years he's selling more dogs to guys out west here, but back then the word was sell them back east for the big dollar.. I think it has to do with salesmanship and perception to who has some money..