The crime of making Americans aware of their own history

[Grzyadms4x4]

Yup, you guys exposed me. I am a VERY liberal, California Fish and Game officer monitoring the site to see what you know about our ILLEGAL search and seizures. Damn the gig is up Ponch, let's get outta here!!

I prefer Woody to Arlo, but the song fits, and if the shoe fits wear it. Damn did someone else write that too? I'm sorry you guys are to lazy to educate yourselves about what we do in this country, but I feel we shouldn't bullsh!t our citizens if we want to go blow someone up or help someone out. We should also be willing to admit mistakes instead of repeating them time and time again and expecting a different outcome. Are our leaders stoned or something?

And do either of you to know what the hell a liberal is, not today's version because todays "liberal" ain't that far off from todays "republican", but what it really means to be a liberal?

If either of you would like to talk foreign policy in this thread, please feel free to, if not, please don't post.

[2ndhound]

Sir you are correct, I am a moronic conservative unaware of the stupid policies that my country has foisted upon an unsuspecting world, Also you are correct that I am too lazy to educate myself about the condition of our current policies, You win hands down , Your obvious education is whipping my hindquarters into submission,
And although I am tempted to respond to your kind offer of a civil discussion of said policies , I fear I must decline.
When I peruse this site I do not come looking for political debate, I come for the hounds not for your personal views, I apologize for pointing out your obvious plagiarism, I always kind of liked "Alices Resturant" back in my hippie wanna be days,
Then I got a brain and well heck the rest is history,
I hope you don't succeed in your endeavours
Ken

[hunt14]

Cuz it's one, two, three what are we fightin for?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
Our next stop is Pak-Is-Stan

And it's one, two, three open up the pearly gates.
Ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopie were all gonna die

Come on mothers across the land
send your kids to Iran-again
Be the first one on your block
To have your KID COME HOME IN A BOX!!!!!

I actually came up with that one, so don't give credit to Mr. Blum!

Free Thinker? I shoud say so! Now that is original. I gave you all the credit on that....just wanted you to know.

In your mind and Mr. Blum's Im sure it is easy to feel that using Mr. Paines words the way I did was using them completely out of context. I guess since you think that the US has an avidity to punish rather than protect homeland and allies from threats then you think it is a danger to our liberty. Rather than trying to pick apart minute details in a single post made against you, you should focus on the basis of why you started this thread in the first place. Just for throwing your ideas and feelings along with that article out their for a largely conservative audience to discuss with you? Or to inform us all that you believe Mr. Blums article, and Osama Bin Laden when he says that the US was mean to him so he is being mean back. Or to offer your support and condolences to dictators like Hussein and Gaddafi and echo their words about how mean and what bullies we have been them? Whats behind you posting this thread?

What US intelligence has been given to you by the CIA or any other intelligence agency (other than William himself) that proves that the attacks that William Blum has stated in his article were completely uncalled for and their was no threat to the US people or its allies? You seem to be so well versed on this issue and so firm in your belief that they have done things so wrong so please let us in on your secret information.

Lets look at the people who are complaining: Osama Bin Laden, Gaddafi, the late Saddam Hussein, Hugo Chavez, Ahmadinejad...etc. oh William Blum? Why would anybody ever question these guys? I mean come on what have they ever done to not deserve the upmost respect. Its their word against our presidents and our intelligence agencies. I guess we can chose who we want to believe ha? I hope my position is clear that I am pro American and what it stands for. This article and its contents are anti-american and if any of it is true I will seek my confirmation and education from other sources less biased and from someone trying to build up our country and it downfalls rather than tear it down.

There are many things that I agree with you on and that I feel apply to our current administration and the previous adm. about using funds more appropriately. I do think part of the answer is in shrinking our government and doing away with so many of these bottomless pit programs as well as doing away with these programs that spend billions on protecting spiders and beetles and such when programs for our elderly and children are going bankrupt. I dont feel the answer is in relying on respect and privacy to patch up a relationship with a country that doesnt like us like Ron Paul said. Does more need to be spent at home within our own borders? I feel it does. We are in a precarious situation where our constitution hangs by a thread. Who is going to lift us up or save our fragile little hearts and minds as William Blum said? Its us, wouldnt you agree 4x4 don't you think your fragile little heart and mind needs to be saved?

[Grzyadms4x4]

I can't speak for Blum, but I do think that Paine's quote wasn't applicable to this topic. After reading your post and especially your last paragraph, it seems we might agree on more than we disagree. Please don't make assumptions based on a few of my comments towards comments made to me that were obviously just stupid. I am a pretty conservative guy and I think that many of the times that we use force we use it without the proper vetting that needs to take place. We seem to allow our government free reign as long as it is in the name of safety. I've learned a few things in the past couple of years with my father having cancer and that is that life is short and there's no need to bullsh!t around the with the truth.

Did some of those uses of force need to be done, yes probably, but allowing our government to circumvent the constitution will only lead to more and more abuses of our liberties.

For example, we just killed what turned out to be two American citizens in Yemen. We new that this fck was there and since he might have been a part of the underwear bomber's plan and said he wanted this or that to happen to us we feel we can kill him without due process of law. Was he a piece of crap traiter, well hell yah he was, but we haven't declared war and he was denied due process of law. I feel that is a very slippery slope we are on. It also does not bode well with the image we try to portray that we are better than other countries. Imagine the hypocrisy we show when a guy like Jared Laughtner can shoot, kill and maim lots of people in front of dozens of witnesses and we give him a trial(and hopefully a speedy execution), but we drone bomb a SUSPECTED associate of the underwear bomber. We could have tried his ass in a court of law without him present, it happens all of the time to other criminals and then killed him.

As far as secret connections, no I don't have any. Wish I did maybe I could get me one of those 2,000 dollar toilets. What I do know is that if you read or nowadays watch congressional testimony in hearings on many of these events past and present that the devil is in the details and our leaders use very carefully chosen words similar to a business opportunity salesman pitches out his product as to infer things that simply are not true or legitimize things that are not right. Both sides do this propaganda and it is simply their means to an end, screw right or wrong.

As far as world leaders of other countries complaining, I can't speak for them, but there is validity in some of their points. I feel that one must look and try however hard it may be at times to understand the opposing viewpoint and put into context their argument based on the shoes they are wearing. I do not and never would condone the actions that some of these so called leaders have perpetrated upon their own citizens, but in our rush to save the citizens from their tyrant we often inflict greater harm to the majority of peoples in that country through sanctions, etc. Which very often skews those citizens viewpoint of our actions and why we did them and that causes many to either support those that can harm us or it causes them to directly harm us. That is the lesson we keep on forgetting.

Why do we time and time again try things that have do not work. People are starving in North Korea and it is obvious that Kim Jong whatever isn't going to do anything about it. He will threaten to do more Nuke testing and beat his chest and demand more rice from us and power from China. We could simply call his bluff. It would be much easier than to string along this same bs as we have for decades. There's no way in hell China would let him do anything. They would smack down upon them before we could get Obama woken up from wherever he is vacationing.

The article may seem unAmerican to you, but I think it is unAmerican to automatically believe everything that you are told as it is clear that the mainstream media has an agenda depending on which channel you watch. You say you are pro-America and that is great, but as we continue to and allow our government to completely disregard the constitution, we have no America and what it will stands for is null. Both sides don't give a shit because as long as one gets war the other gets welfare and vice versa. All you have to do is follow the money trail and you can see that some of our past aggressions basically come down to money. Since both parties receive money from the same organizations or corporations it is easy to see why none of them want to change the status quo. Fear makes their donors rich and gets politicians reelected.

From what I understand Hunt14, I don't think Ron Paul thinks privacy and respect will patch things up with other countries. He wants privacy for us as as it stands now it won't be long before we have none wouldn't you agree? As far as respect, we should be the stand up guys, willing to listen to whatever someone may want to tell us and not be condescending, disrespectful or walk out on them as our US envoy at the UN did last week. If we want to foster relations with other countries and patch up sour relations with other we cannot act like a dictator, but more like a mother, a mother of liberty, as actions speak louder than words.

It is just as important for us to admit when we are wrong. It isn't a sign of weakness, but of wiseness in my opinion. It is also the right thing to do, but we do not do that, we simply do not talk about it or we spin it to make it someone else's fault or we cover it up. As long as our government is dishonest, how can you believe one word that they say over another. They are like the boy that cries wolf, except they keep crying wolf and we keep believing them, but that is changing and when their word may be good no one will trust them, and unfortunately we are getting to that point with a large majority of Americans.

I think it is obvious who I think is going to lift us up. us.

[super white hunter]

General Black Jack Pershing – was born September 13th, 1860 near Laclede MS, he dead July 15th, 1948 in Washington DC.
1891-Prof. of Military Science and tactics univer. Of Nebraska
1898- Serves in the Spanish-American war
1901- Awarded rank of Captain
1906-Promoted to Brigadier Ganeral
1909- Military Govenor of Moro Province, Phililppines
1916- Made Major General
1919- Promoted to General of the Armies
1921- Appointed to Chief of Staff
1924- Retires from active duty education West Point

Just before World War 1, there were a number of terrorist ataacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won’t even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those virgins) and doomed to hell. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped it the terrorist’s bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th man fo. And for the next forty-two years, there was not a single muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world.

Here is some american history
Wish we still had leaders like this around instead of a bunch of girls whining about how someone else is doing it.

[Trueblue]

This nation sold it's soul a long time ago when its leadership forgot that it was "one nation UNDER GOD".You lose that,and you have lost everything.

[George Streepy]

General Black Jack Pershing

Just before World War 1, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won’t even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those virgins) and doomed to hell. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped it the terrorist’s bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th man go. And for the next forty-two years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world.

This didn't actually happen you know. This is just another BS email without any facts to back it up.

There are no documented accounts of these events ever happening in the Philippines or anywhere else in 1911 or at any other time. Even experts who have studied "Black Jack" have no record of it. Pershing biographer, Dr. Frank E. Vandiver, told Urban Legends expert, David Emery, that he has found no historical account of such a strategy and feels that such actions would run counter to what is know of Pershing's character.

I looked at my email just before logging onto this forum and had about 50 emails that I am sure are full of similar BS. You know where all those come from, my Conservative friends. Come to think of it I can't really remember the last time one of my Liberal friends sent an email full of BS propaganda. Why is it so important to the Conservative folks to send out so many of these emails?

Oh well, at least some of the Obama and Pelosi jokes are pretty funny.

[BoarHunter1]

Look at it this way; you’re a big tough guy walking down the street minding your own business. You look across the street and a group of guys (whose goal in life is to destroy you, your family and country because there bible tells them to) is beating up, raping and going to kill some poor helpless person. Do you keep walking and do nothing because it’s not your business, I don't think so you march your happy but across that street and take care of business. If you would not take your A:: and move somewhere else like France because YOU are the problem with this country

Sorry tried to stay calm and ignore this but it's just to aggravating

Sgt
USMC

$3 Trillion on Unfunded wars, accruing Interest.
I wont convince you of anything, maybe our Founding Fathers will.


"America "goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own,"
-John Quincy Adams in his oration of July 4, 1821.

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations entangling Alliances with None."
-Thomas Jefferson

'Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence, the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.'
-George Washington


'Of all the enemies to public liberty, War is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes ... known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.... No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.'
- James Madison






Iraq has never Occupied another nation. Saddam a CIA asset. Shaking hands with Sec of Defense Don Rumsfeld.




Iran, in its entire history, has never occupied another nation. It is home to 40K Jews and 250K Christians. We Overthrew their Democracy in 1953 and put into power their Brutal Shah, our puppet. Until the people finally said enough.
Heres one of many Jewish Synagogues in Iran below..



Afganistan has never occupied another nation, but has evicted EVERY Foreign Occupier.

None of these countries had a Navy or ICBMs with which to attack the USA, and there are 2 large bodies of water to traverse, called Oceans.

We are there for their resources, which globalists (Oil Corps, Miltary Defense Contractors and Israeli Bankers) wish to annex as their own.

We werent attacked for who we are, but what we do..we Overthrow Democracies, Kill their Leaders, Build Massive Military Bases on their soil and bring a Central Bank for the Banksters to enslave.
They didnt attack Switzerland, Norway or Finland because they dont do these things.
There is something called cause and effect in this world. Having 700 Bases in 130 countries doesnt make for good foreign policy any way you look at it.


Reasons for War in Iraq



And Afganistan



And CIA & Mossad gets the Heroin/Opium production (Billion$)

[BoarHunter1]

General Black Jack Pershing – was born September 13th,

Just before World War 1, there were a number of terrorist ataacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won’t even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those virgins) and doomed to hell. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped it the terrorist’s bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th man fo. And for the next forty-two years, there was not a single muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world.

Here is some american history
Wish we still had leaders like this around instead of a bunch of girls whining about how someone else is doing it.

Curious...Just What Business did the US Military HAVE in Operating a Military Base IN the Phillipines in 1909?



Israel deliberately attacked an unarmed US Navy Ship (USS LIBERTY) sailing in International Waters in 1967, Killing and Wounding 200 US Sailors, in the longest attack on the US Navy Since Pearl Harbor.
Some say it was to be blamed on Egypt to have the USA declare war on Egypt-US Fighter Jets and Bombers were dispatched (And later called off en route) by President Johnson on a bombing mission in Egypt as a result.

Israel used Napalm on our boys to burn them alive, they fired 5000 50 cal rounds, shot the life rafts (War Crime) and sent in a copter full of commandoes to finish off our boys, until they were spotted by the Russians and they left. Then, Israel lied about it and our government covered it up.
Should we have declared war ON Israel that day?

[BoarHunter1]

well i agree our foreign policy is messed up thats the reason we havnt won a war since vietnam u cant win a war by pussyfootin around and putting restrictions on how to fight. all is fair in war so crap or get off the pot should be the policy if we must be there and kill the weeds by killin the seeds. sounds really bad but these people have been fighting wars long before the birth of this great country and the only way to stop it is too get rid of them completely if we cant or dont want to do that then we might as well get out now cause tryin to separate the good from the bad in religion is impossible. As grzyadms4x4 said"the truth hurts your feelers"

Your war is based on what? Proven Lies and bad intel?



"No, we've had No evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th."
-George Bush 9-18-2003


'Iraq did Not have the weapons our intelligence believed were there.'
-Bush 10/7/2004


'For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.
-Neo Con Paul Wolfowitz Vanity Fair interview May 28, 2003


'The CIA gave us Bad intelligence.'
~George W. Bush, July 11, 2003


"We got it Wrong. We have seen nothing to suggest that he had actual stockpiles."
- Powell, Oct. 1, 2004







Please, Can you name for me (Just ONE) Afgani who killed an American prior to the US Invasion?

So after 8 years and $1 Trillion in this unfunded war, we have 1 Million people dead, on lies.
60,000 US Servicemen are dead or crippled, on lies. 5k of them commit suicide every year based on what they saw and did.

Dont it make you prouder n chit?

[BoarHunter1]

There was trouble in the middle east long before we were around. We may not be able to stop it but we have caused severe disruption and gathered a lot of intelligence. Being in the middle east is a necesity to our freedom.

HOW?

It is AGAINST What Every Founding Father ever wrote or discussed.


"America "goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own,"
-John Quincy Adams in his oration of July 4, 1821.

'Of all the enemies to public liberty, War is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes ... known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few....
No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.'
- James Madison


"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations entangling Alliances with None."
-Thomas Jefferson


You can correct your statement by stating that Protecting OUR Border is a necessity to our freedom, rather than allowing 3000 Illegals in per day.
But that might make too much sense.

[BoarHunter1]

Your first act of terrorism is listed as the Libyan aircraft incident in 1981. What about the 66 people taken hostage by Iranian radicals in 1979??

You forgot the timeline of events.

The USA Froze BILLIONS in Iranian Assets AFTER The people Overthrew the brutal US Puppet-Shah of Iran.

It was only After the Freezing of Iranian Assets BY the USA, that US Hostages were taken.
Iran had a democratic leader until the CIA Overthrew it in 1953.

Funny how your history is selective...

[BoarHunter1]

Look at it this way; you’re a big tough guy walking down the street minding your own business. You look across the street and a group of guys (whose goal in life is to destroy you, your family and country because there bible tells them to) is beating up, raping and going to kill some poor helpless person. Do you keep walking and do nothing because it’s not your business, I don't think so you march your happy but across that street and take care of business. If you would not take your A:: and move somewhere else like France because YOU are the problem with this country

Sorry tried to stay calm and ignore this but it's just to aggravating

Sgt
USMC

I think you mean youre walking down the street and see a group of guys across the Atlantic Ocean via a telescope.
Youve got Military Bases all across their country and plans to build more-Militaries do one thing-Kill and destroy, and they well know it.

Your CIA and the Israeli Mossad have been involved in Assasinations on their leaders and revolution attempts to overthrow if they dont 'play ball' and take the loans offered to them (Shylock Loanshark IMF World-bank loans).

They 'eye ball' you, so you decide to bomb their country and invade it with ground troops,
(all the while planned in the back offices by Neo CON government officials.)

The invasion doesnt go well, its met with violent Resistance and they have firm resolve to evict all foreign Occupiers, as theyve done throughout history, as they dont care for Western Culture ie Divorce, Abortion, Usury, Modernism, Feminism and other Ism Ills that tear down the fabric of society-family and GOD.

8 Years later, youve lost more ground than youve gained when it started and spent Trillions in so doing.


And people like you simply it and offer a hack job trying to explain what is painfully obvious to some others like us, the reasonably informed.




"I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar-soaked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own, if their revolution must be of the violent type because the haves refuse to share with the have-nots by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the US style, which they dont want crammed down their throats"

-Marine General David Shoup
Congressional Medal of Honor

[timothy]

America is evil. Everyone put on a vest and go blow up some kiddies.

[BoarHunter1]

America is evil. Everyone put on a vest and go blow up some kiddies.

No one has said that America is evil. It is our Foreign Policy that is evil.
We were once the beacon of light of Freedom to all nations and we prospered with a humble foreign policy.

Now that we occupy 130 nations and have a Monica Lewinsky type relationship with Israel, we are hated.
I dont like to be isolated or spend money we dont have on endless wars. Im surprised that you do...

People like you are funny. Just Like the English did to us, you like to call those that resist Occupation 'terrorists' Rather than those that Are The Occupiers.


Tim,
We dont need to put vests on to blow anyone up, we prefer to do it with Unmanned Drones and planes from the sky...like Wedding parties in Afganistan or kids riding bicycles like this one.



This was a 13 yr old boy, sport shot while riding a bicycle, as a 'trophy', stripped of his pants.

The Soldiers have been charged, but this makes us no friends.
Does it make you proud like it did them?






Our Israeli Allies and bestest buddies getting ready to use banned weapons.



Does GOD hate Middle Eastern people any less than American people?
What would Jesus do? What did he say of those that would harm children? Of Usury?