The Dogs make the hunter.

[Warner5]

I talked to a very good hunting buddy tonight, who I look up to and respect. After a bit of cat dog talk, I realized a thing or two. My dogs made me the hunter I am, and without them I would not know shit about bobcats or bobcat dogs. I dont know where I'm going with this but I have come to realize it. And I'm sure some of you cat hunters know what I'm talking about and can relate. Anyway thankyou. I appreciate all the help and advice. Happy hunting. John.

[mondomuttruner]

There's a lot of truth to that statement Warner. When the right dog finally comes around, everything seems to click.

[super white hunter]

Well said

[Ryan]

No doubt, but the great hunters seem to be better at making dogs that make them look good.

[mondomuttruner]

You need to start out with a good teacher, and I'm not talking about the owner, I'm talking about the dog. Most good cat hunters started out with a natural cat dog which in turn taught other dogs the ropes. Dogs learn 10 times faster from another dog than their owner, and hopefully their learning the right things. JMO

[dwalton]

John: I agree with you in part. I look back at 46 years of hunting and realize the first dog that I had was the best or close to it. She taught me about hunting with hounds no matter how much I got in her way. From hunting with hounds I learned what a good dog was and had something to compare all dogs to. As a hunter it is my responsibility to to pick the right dog and get the most out of them. If I am hunting bear in the middle of desert I won't find a lot of bears. It will not be the dogs fault that he can't catch one there. The dogs hunt with me not I with the dogs. That is the most important thing with a very successful hunter. YOU ARE THE BRAINS, YOU PICK THE DOGS, THE PLACE TO HUNT, HOW TO TRAIN THEM AND WHEN IT IS THEM OR YOU THAT IS NOT CAUSING, CATCHING THE GAME. Here is where all men are not created equal. Dewey

[mondomuttruner]

You don't train a dog to run a cat. You train a dog to come when called, shut up when told to, not to run off game and many other small things. You give a dog the opportunity to run a cat and then it's up to the dog. Sure when starting out you have to go in and help once in awhile but the dog either has it or doesn't have it, most dogs don't have the personality to run cats. Now, I've only been hound hunting for about 15 years, I don't know it all, this is just what I've experienced. I may have a different opinion if I was running where there were more cats but here, 15 to 20 cats is all you can find in a year so you have to make the best of what you have.

[dwalton]

Mondomuttrunner: I agree with what you say but I think you can take it father. You can run a sticky dog with a running type dog to teach it to move a track faster, you can teach a dog to cold trail better by hunting with one that cold trails, you can shock a dog for barking off track to teach him to be quite and get to the lead dogs, you can shock a dog for baking at a bush to long, you can stop a dog from over running a track or running down a road past where a cat left, you take a dog back to a track when he went backwards and let him run the right end......... If want there is unlimited things you can teach a dog to fine tune him. You still want to breed and choose the dog that best does what you want naturally but I have never seen the perfect dog. With said you can teach them to be near perfect. I need to say that I hunt more in one winter than most people get to hunt in a life time it takes a lot of time and dedication to get the most out of a dog and it can be hard to tell which ones are worth the time. Dewey

[mondomuttruner]

Dewey
All these things you said you can teach a dog in my mind the dog should do naturally. If you have to teach a dog not to take a backtrack, bark twice at a bush, overrun a track, ect. , in my mind that dog will never be a great catdog. Sure, it will run cats but how well? I've only had 2 really, really good cat dogs, I wouldn't call them great but I couldn't ask for anything more out of them. One I started from scratch, the other one I didn't do anything but put him on a track and he took over from there. With the limited season here, I may not ever own another like them, short of paying big bucks for a dog.

[bearhunter611]

Mondomuttruner I agree with you, its all in the dogs natural abilities. You have "cat dogs" and dogs that will "run a cat". and finding a good cat dog is a hard thing to do, and you can go through a lot of dogs to find one. not all dogs have what it takes to be good. I've been hunting about the same amount of years (18) as you and have had two that i would call good. The dog I have now does an ok job and runs them well, but i still call him a dog that will run a cat. I tend to kill a cat every year with this dog but it seems to take alot of work, which in the end is rewarding. Its all about the snow conditions with this dog whether or not I catch or tree one. I have a young dog that is looking like a good prospect but only time will tell, would be nice to have a nice "straight" dog to hunt this pup with this winter, but I'll just have deal with what ive got. I used to hunt coyotes with my older dog as a pup because I had other cat dogs, but with them passing away its a 50/50 chance of have a cat or yote off a cold trail. so it'll be walking them all up this winter till the pup knows what I want him to run, and by the end of the season I should have an idea what kind of pup I have.

[South Texan]

"Does the Dog make the Hunter?"
When you are inexperienced and trying to become a cat hunter SURE a good broke cat dog can make the hunter. BUT the hunter has to be able to learn from the dog. As Mr. Dewey said "This is where all men aren't created equal." Some men have a given talent to read what a dog is doing in the woods and this comes with experience. Others just can't pick up on it. When Mr. Dewey said he might shock his dog for over running a track, barking on a bush to long, not pulling up to the lead dogs, etc. I might not pick up on these small mistakes that his dogs are doing and let it go and the problem just gets worse and worse. But he sees these small mistakes and gets them corrected right at the beginning and gets the problem stopped before it gets to be a habit with the dog. I don't think I have ever owned a dog that didn't make some kind of a mistake at some point in his training career. Right now I'm hunting 10 dogs and I own a 6 dog trashsbreaker system and most of the time the six collars are on the dogs as I am hunting for one reason or another. We have to keep trying for perfection in our dogs.
The fewer the mistakes the better they're going to be. Some people don't like to admit that their dog is doing anything wrong, so they let the problem go on. All their doing is cutting their own throat. When you get away from perfection your taking a step backwards.



I think after a hunter has had the experience that Mr. Dewey has had, it is at this point that the "Hunter makes the Dog." Not that someone else might not be able to make a useable dog out of it, but the experienced hunter or person who has that "God" given talent to read a dog, can get the MOST out of the dog. Just my thoughts. Robbie

[mondomuttruner]

Point taken Robbie. Thanks

[kordog]

i think it is our exsperiences that make the hunter and the dog and what we learn from them .when i was green my hound s did all the teaching as i hunted alone there were a couple of hounds i had that did the teaching to me and my other hounds. we work as a team. i sure do appreciate a hound you have to steer very little naturals you could say .if you just took hounds with no exsperience and cast them into the wild they would become whatever game they could catch and kill hound s that would leave out bear i would think also bobcat. they would stick to game that fed them on a regular basis along with easy opportunity.thats why to me the first exsperience they have with game id like it to be my game of choiceand make it a good experience.i think it helps make them straighter the same way having a good experience on trash makes them trashier for instance young hounds dragging down a deer and getting away with it.some disagree and thats fine ,but ive seen experiences to support my theory .i love it when my hounds get a grudge for the game i put them on makes for some fun running.seems like the best ones ive had are that way.

[david]

No doubt, but the great hunters seem to be better at making dogs that make them look good.

+1

I think we can draft Ryan to take over for Pete in the proverb department.

Something for you to pay attention to is the people that always have a top bobcat dog. Next, find out if they always raised the dog, or they always buy the dog. Both are gifted, but in different ways. I have the highest regard for the man that always has a top dog, and he raises his dogs. This is where the other guy buys his dogs. A smart man.
I think it was John Wick who said "first find the man, then you will find the dog".

Having said that, I must say that I too was blessed with a couple powerful dogs early in my dog days. They taught me some powerful strengths to look for and some powerful faults to avoid. I can still spot them in a dog a mile away.