Definition of "finished" cat dog

[tomtom]

How is this different than say, "finished" coon-dog. I have my opinion but would like to read others.

[cobalt]

There really is no difference. One dog is broke to catch cat only and one dog is broke to catch coon. In parts of the country, cat is considered trash as with other areas, coon is trash. Either dog should probably catch a certain percentage of the target animals pursued in their geographic area as no dog catches 100% (and if they do well......). This percentage is what should differentiate price or value (along with other variables like temprament and handling), but that is where the waters get muddied. Some people sell really nice dogs for relatively cheap and others want good money while others think they have something superior, but don't, or they know they have something inferior and try to swindle someone due to the buyers ignorance. In any case it is hard to determine the quality of a "finished dog" vs price (value) without hunting the dog and better yet hunting it with good dogs of the same "finished" degree, several times. This is my basic summation of what I think was asked.

[South Texan]

Any "finished" dog should be able to start, trail, run, and tree or bay it's perferred game and be trash broke off all off game. And should be able to do it on his own without any help. But...you are not going to find many cat dogs that can do this all on his own. I also believe there or finished cat dogs that contribute to the pack in one way or another, maybe he's a good trailer but not a good running dog. he might be a good locating dog, maybe he's a good jump dog, but he's a solid broke dog and he's good at what he does within the pack. Although he might not be able to do all the things to get it done by himself, I would still consider him a finished dog at what he does best.

A good cat dog pack is a lot like a good football team. They are well coached and disciplined with no nonsense within the pack. They know what the other team member is thinking and when "Ol Blue" says I got it up here the others better get their rear end up there in a hurry and give him some help. There is no room for mistakes. They gotta work as a team or pack. If you notice a dog starting to make a certain mistake get on top of it and put a stop to it. We, as the trainers, first have to be able to notice the mistake then decide the best way to correct it.

Cat dogs compared to coon dogs is kinda like NFL players compare to high school football players. Not to say some high school players don't make it to the NFL. It's just a lot tuffer game with no room for errors and harder to make the cut. My 2 cents worth. Robbie

[mondomuttruner]

good post robbie!

[LDB]

good post robbie!

x2, really well stated. I will add this, the special dog that can do it all is the one worth big bucks, if you are ever lucky enough to hunt with one that is for sale at all.

[Alabama Cathunter]

Robbie, very well said. there is no dog that catches everytime and there is no perfect dog But it is like you said it is like a football team, you dontwant all linemen nor all quarterbacks but multy talent to have a good packand the hunter needs to be smarter than the dogs he is tring to train.

[Arkcountryboy]

That is well said but in my opinon no dog no matter how good or trash broke they are is worth 5,000 to 10,000 dollars that is my opinoin I have coon hunted with really expincve hounds n hounds that ppl say will not make anything that have been given to me for free n them free dogs have been finished n completly trash broke n them expencive hounds ive hunted were complete shit

[Shorty]

Arkcountry,
It's been my experiance that a coon dog is just that, "a coon dog". Although they may put up a random cat, it takes a totally different kind of dog to do it with any regularity (in this part of the country at least). True cat dogs are not easy to come by and are tough to make. Lots of time and money go into making one. That is why they are worth they money people are getting for them.

I'll put it to y'all like this. Go find you a puppy. Take that puppy and make it into a top bobcat dog that can get it done in any country/terrain. I'm not talking about a dog that'll go chase a bobcat. I'm talking about a broke dog that catches bobcat. I'll then give you $5000 for that dog if I think it's something I'd like to own. I bet if you keep track of your $$$'s spent along with your time, you'd be blown away at how much money you actually loose. JMHO

[Arkcountryboy]

Im not just saying coon dogs that gos for a top notch hog dog to I may have never hunted cats but I still have not or ever will pay that much for a dog my buddies back home hunt cats n they also would not be stuipd enough to pay that kind of money r try n sale a dog for that kind of money the hound I have now will run n hunt what I put him on n I put money on that n he will also hunt just as hard if not harder then 5 n 10 thousand dollar dogs will n he us just a ol arkansas redbone

[Arkcountryboy]

Its not the price of the dog its the time n love u give them that makes them bad ass hunters ask any any old time hunter that has always hunted dogs n thats what they will tell,u n an,old hunter is who tought me hiw to train and hunt with hounds

[twist]

Seen alot of hard hunting dogs in my time but they coulnt catch a cold let alone a bobcat. Also seen alot of guys haul hounds around that doesnt make them a houndsmen either..Andy

[R Severe]

I like South Texans thoughts on a finished hound. Like horses a dog is worth what someone will pay for it. That may not be what you would pay for it.

I sure can't pay a bunch for a dog, that sure don't mean I wouldn't pay a bunch if I had it.
In the meantime I'll keep trying to finish each pup into the best they can be. Maybe I'll even get one that matches South Texans standard someday. Doubt I'd sell it for any amount.

[jcathunter]

Im not just saying coon dogs that gos for a top notch hog dog to I may have never hunted cats but I still have not or ever will pay that much for a dog my buddies back home hunt cats n they also would not be stuipd enough to pay that kind of money r try n sale a dog for that kind of money the hound I have now will run n hunt what I put him on n I put money on that n he will also hunt just as hard if not harder then 5 n 10 thousand dollar dogs will n he us just a ol arkansas redbone

Any chance that you're a teenage kid?? The reason I ask is that most experienced hound men know better than to brag or "put money on" dogs because that is exactly the time your dog will make you look like an idiot.

[tomtom]

I asked my dad, "Out of all the cat hounds we had, Grandpa had, so and so and so and so had, how many have you seen that could catch a cat by themselves?" He said " You mean jump him and put enough heat under him to make him tree or turn and fight? None." I asked what a "finished cat hound" meant to him. He said one that is simply broke to run cats. Thats it. Some just fill a bigger set of shoes than others. I asked about catching a certain percentage. He said "No. Plain and simple. Forget it." I said " So your telling me out of all the cats that have met their demise from you and all the other old timers I knew, none of them had hounds that could consistently catch one by themselves?" He said "Nope. Maybe up north but not here." I said "So a cat hound that could jump and tree or bay most cats he strikes by himself would be worth what.... 5 Grand?"...... "Nope, he'd be priceless because they don't exist."

[CatCrazed]

Im not just saying coon dogs that gos for a top notch hog dog to I may have never hunted cats but I still have not or ever will pay that much for a dog my buddies back home hunt cats n they also would not be stuipd enough to pay that kind of money r try n sale a dog for that kind of money the hound I have now will run n hunt what I put him on n I put money on that n he will also hunt just as hard if not harder then 5 n 10 thousand dollar dogs will n he us just a ol arkansas redbone

Hog dogs ain't got nothin to do w bobcats. All you need is a slobber mouth aggressive bread hound and turn him loose. I had a decent bear dog once and I'm not sure he could catch a cat if I tied it to his collar and I bet ur redbone ain't no dif.