Type of hounds in Northern states

[super white hunter]

Nice to see an intelligent conversation where people including myself can learn something

[dwalton]

sdred: You are hunting in some of the worst conditions that there is any where. Cold dry ground be it old snow or no snow and I would think a lot of wind. I feel different dogs do different in bad conditions. You will have the problem with time and distance, being able to move a track fast enough to complete it or getting a jump the dogs make a lose and the trots ahead of them all day. Most of the running dogs of today don't want to take a old track as some of your treeing blood. I have ran two types of dogs for years because of this, old style Finiley River Walkers and running dogs because traits that come from both are hard to find in one dog. I have bred them back and forth to get both and having some luck with it. I like a dog that will strike a very cold track and work it, but those dogs are a little sticky. If you put one of those out there that will pack up it learns to move a track like a running dog and a running dog learns to hang on a cold track. I hunted a lot in desert and snow last year. On real cold dry snow what I seen is that a big pack of dogs stomped the track out, this a track that was 10 to 12 hours old made the evening before. What I did was to put my three old females on it to work it out, a walker. a 5\8 running dog and a leopard cur, more that that cause problems. If it was a morning track the younger dogs got it and caught it without any trouble. To my surprise the leopards did very well in those conditions. If I was you I would run a running type dog with your hounds that you have now and see if that would speed them up. Depending on the conditions some days each type of dog will shine. I hunt cats because I love the challenge, it is a thinking mans game. If one has it figured out you are going backwards. I also hunt to catch and kill because of the money that I make from the cats. Dewey

[sdred]

Me and a friend of mine were talking about that today. We thought that if a guy could get a running dog say about 1to2 years of age that has ran bobs with older dogs of the same type take it north say May or June let it get used to weather and terrain in the summer come winter it should be used to climate. (Make sure it's a female because we have good males but would rather carry traits of the female stronger if you breed her). But maybe freecast the running dog on bare ground if track gets jumped turn in tree dog to tree, if snow check track with nose hound if hot turn in runner if needs pounded a while let nose hound pound it out till hotter then turn in running hound to put pressure to tree. My friend last year watched a nose hound track a trotter and if just lift head could have caught it on the ground or ran the cat by sight the cat did tree because it was tree or open ground. But you wounder how often this happens when you can't see the dogs? We don't use a big pack because of the trailing conditions but could use a two dog pack. Turning in a dog becomes an issue because of terrain and distance away a dog can get. So maybe the answer lies with turning both down same time.

[Nolte]

sdred,

Take my advice for what it cost you but I think you are sort of on the right track. We try to tag team couple dogs on cats in WI. A real good cold trailer and then a warmer nose winding type dog that really only adds value on the hunt when it's jumped. I can't say our tactics are any better than anything else but it's what we're trying.

It's my estimation that 95% of dogs are pretty worthless on cats unless you have ideal snow conditions AND a cat track. Sometimes it's tough to get the two at the same time.

If you are looking at a running dog, make sure to get one from guys who catch what they are after and what you're going to chase. And even better if it's simiiar conditions. Lots of running dogs are just pen dogs and are never even hunted outside the fence. These dogs won't hold a track but will instead just look for another when they make a loss. I know guys in other areas use running dogs or crosses and stack up the game. I have had zero luck with them and pretty much quit even trying them. Of all the guys I know or hunt with in our area, only 1 has a running dog that I'd consider any good. We had one that was an OK coyote dog but lacked nose and would lose tracks in confusing situations. Had a dozen that made you want to quit hunting all-together.

[Larry Emery]

sdred
We are using running bred dogs and crosses here in northern Mn. with good success. Like Nolte said though be sure not to get running dogs that are bred for the pen hunts.

[sdred]

Larry where did you get your hounds and do ya break off of coyote?

[Larry Emery]

sdred
We raise our own hounds, and yea we use the same hounds on coyote as well, they seem to like running cats better though. We never free cast for cats, we find a track and freshen it up as much as we can and put the hounds down.

[gunsrock38]

I think the guys here in western SD just use hounds. There are some that can catch them pretty well, but I've talked to a couple different guys and they said that catching a bobcat in South Dakota is the hardest out of every other state they have run them in. None of them are using running dogs that I know of anyways.

[sdred]

Well that makes me fill a little better. The smart cats seem to run to their favorite get away place and start pulling some tricks that could put any dogs to shame, I was just thinking if a guy could catch them before they got to those areas it would be nice. But can't complain we do tree a fair share of cats. Hey has anyone in South Dakota or Montana Wyoming ever caught a bob on the ground not brush piled or holed but just bayed up on the ground.

[twist]

Never caught any on the ground in my area, havent heard of anyone in Montana doin it. Maybe I need better dogs Andy

[kehrer10]

I haven't caught any! Yet! I think you might need a new line of dogs Andy, cause my Topper pup has no speed or drive!

[mondomuttruner]

as you can see, we have those instant kill dogs. lol Works out good because you can let them go, let them grow!!

[david]

Hey great pictures Mondo! Got my blood goin again. Great thread. Thanks to all for the great posts.

Mondo, what you got there is just what I wanted and sometimes had, but it can be real hard to find a dog that will bay that tight but not kill. That is exactly my goal in a bobcat dog.
Nice dog.
Nice work.

[mondomuttruner]

Actually I got lucky these cats were close to the road. I pulled the hair pullers off before they had them stretched. These were accidental runs, I try to let go on 30lb+ tracks when the snow gets deep, they either tree or get the better of the dogs on the ground. Like I said, I don't have "kill" type dogs and I like it that way, they will bay all day or as long as it takes to get into them. Small cats are a different story, that is why no one should run them when the snow gets over 6 or 10 inches if your just running for the fun of it.

[Teun]

Hey, great info here fellas!! I am learning a lot. I have a couple questions...when you say running dogs, as opposed to tree dogs, are you talking pure fox hounds or fox/treeing mixed up dogs?? Second, I would like to take a shot at running cats. I am in NC...I am pretty sure we have a nice cat population as I see them from time to time. We don't get much snow here...is it still possible to hunt them with hounds?? Any thoughts??

Anyway, thanks for the info!