how to talk somebody down from shooting

[huntfish8]

I have got permisson on a good chunk of private ground to hunt on. Here are the problems the guy wants to go out with me. He has had pics on his trail cam of about 100 lb female comeing through. Has about 5 pics of it through the last 7 months in the same general area. And he want all cats up there preatty much gone. Went up there last weekend there was snow up there and the gentelmen and I. Were out deer hunting and we cut two different sets of lion tracks and 3 different sets of bobcat tracks. He was all jacked up to kill those ones. They aren't that big of cat i am not for shooting little ass cats or even shooting and average one. The only way I would shoot one if it was a mature tom and I have never shot one yet. There is a lot of cats up there and I want it to be that way, its not very easy to find cat tracks around idaho sometimes. My question is how can I talk him into not shooting them tell they are mature. He is a very nice old guy. Is there anything I can say or do to make him change his mind...

[live to hunt]

Who are you to tell this landowner what to do with the wildlife on his property? He wants some cats killed. Why? Are the deer numbers low? If you donot want to kill a few cats maybe you should not be in there hunting the same deer they are? I donot know how well you know this man but he has the right to manage his property the way he sees fit and if you donot at least help him kill a lion he will find someone else to do the job.

[M Evertsen]

If you have permission to hunt his property for lions, and he wants to go along, and he wants to kill the cats - looks like you have two options. Let him kill the cats, or not hunt his property. I am not sure what his situation is. Is he a cattle or sheep rancher? Does he just like seeing deer and elk, and not the lions? Tough decision to make, but I guarentee you aren't going to get an invite back if he is there and the cat is not shot. Just how it goes.

[desertrat]

It is his land and if you are hunting it, it is his rules. Ranchers hate cats with a passion they eat their liveing and lively hood, and they dont care if there is only one left, if it is on their land they want it dead. I had to go kill a 110-120 lb cats this weekend here in NV, rancher called me at 2am with a cat track in the road. If I want to hunt his land it better come back dead. Just the name of the game with land owners.

[huntfish8]

All right there are plenty of deer up there. Between my trail cams and his trail cams we have over 20 different bucks and some very nice to decent and a lot more does. There is quiet a few elk and a whole tone of moose.He is not a rancher he has a hores as a pet. He has never had any confict with these cats. I have told him that I don't want any part of shooting females and young cats and he said that's fine we can find mature cats. Then he goes back to saying I just want them all gone. So I don't now what to belive. I was just wanting to if there was something else I could say to kinda change his mind about cats cause he thinks that they are just killing everything. I'm not very good with words or talking so any advise would help. I guess I might have to just take him hunting and see what he does. I'm am not sure if he wants a trophy or just kill to kill he sounds just back and forth.

[bowhound]

if you don't get one for him, he'll probably let someone else in who will and you may lose your private spot. Any private land you can tie up that holds game and lions is as good as gold.

[Lost River]

Explain the to gent that you look at the lions the same way he looks at deer or elk, you would like to help him manage them. I would try to encourage him to let that female walk and tell him sooner or later there is going to be a big tom in the area because of her. Also let him know that having a couple cats like that helps keeps your dogs tuned up and ready to rock one a big ol tom comes through. Offer to take him cat hunting in other area (where you drive long hard days not to see anything). Tell him you really appreciate him letting you in, that is is his property and you for sure will follow his rules, but you would also like to share your observations on cat hunting and some management. Maybe he will get out and see a cat or two in the tree and enjoy them and not have the kill'm all mentality. Best of luck, Casey

[larry]

go hunting when you know he can't tag along, tell him track is too old, dump puppies instead of the finished dogs, tell him you're pretty sure theres kittens around and you don't want the dogs to kill them, tell him its to small and his mount is gonna have spots on it, tell him you want fresh dogs when a good one comes through so you wont be able to chase just anything you find, not being totally honest can be the right thing to do at times and it can also bite you in the ass, its a fine line..... a yearling cat is gonna look big to the guy in the tree so you might have to let him shoot whatever, he's gonna want to, just depends on how in charge he wants to be. You could also start showing him pictures of big toms and try to get him after a real trophy if thats what he is after, a mount on the wall. Most guys have dreams of big toms till they see a small one in a tree and some dick houndguy tells them the 100lb lion they are looking at will be 150lbs, you have more knowledge so you can try to sway the situation instead of encouraging a kill. sounds like you two are kinda buddies so you should probably just tell him how you feel and tell him you really want to get him a good tom, make your unwillingness to kill a female more about trying to do him a favor than the lion a favor.

[huntfish8]

Thanks larry that's what I wanted to hear. I just need to learn to B.S. thanks for the help.

[Patrick]

"I'm not very good with words or talking so any advise would help."

Look into joining a Toastmasters club.
Verbal communication skills come very natural to a lot of people. But the rest of us have to develop these skills and that takes practice, practice, practice.

[timothy]

well, I would take him with you and pass all the tracks until you found a tom. Then if you did not find a tom go back and put on the first bob cat track you see.

[snakerivercatman]

Wow, I really hope you get through to the guy about taking mature toms only, sounds like you've got a honeyhole there. If he's never seen a lion, I can guarantee you that the first one you tree for him is going to be the biggest one he's ever seen and he's going to want it knocked out, and it won't get passed on. All you can do is do your best to explain the dynamics of the lion population, and that toms are kitten killers. Maybe he'll see the light, and go with what you tell him. It's true, if you don't run females for him and he wants them all killed, then you will lose your spot to another hunter. HOWEVER, if you stick to your guns, at least you will know in your heart that you're not contributing yourself and your status as a reputable lion hunter to the trash that is out there that whacks everything that goes up a tree. This is not an extinuating circumstance here, you have the choice before hand to lay down your own law and stick with it.....what you do with this is up to you buddy...good luck with your decision

[snakerivercatman]

go hunting when you know he can't tag along, tell him track is too old, dump puppies instead of the finished dogs, tell him you're pretty sure theres kittens around and you don't want the dogs to kill them, tell him its to small and his mount is gonna have spots on it, tell him you want fresh dogs when a good one comes through so you wont be able to chase just anything you find, not being totally honest can be the right thing to do at times and it can also bite you in the ass, its a fine line..... a yearling cat is gonna look big to the guy in the tree so you might have to let him shoot whatever, he's gonna want to, just depends on how in charge he wants to be. You could also start showing him pictures of big toms and try to get him after a real trophy if thats what he is after, a mount on the wall. Most guys have dreams of big toms till they see a small one in a tree and some dick houndguy tells them the 100lb lion they are looking at will be 150lbs, you have more knowledge so you can try to sway the situation instead of encouraging a kill. sounds like you two are kinda buddies so you should probably just tell him how you feel and tell him you really want to get him a good tom, make your unwillingness to kill a female more about trying to do him a favor than the lion a favor.

Well put larry, woulda saved me some typing if I had just read your post first.......

[Smiley]

another way of thinking is do your best to talk to educate him on lion hunting. Try your best to persuade him to do what is best but always remember it is his proporty and if he wants to shoot the first legal lion you better do it he can only shoot one so maybe it would be better to accommodate and let him have his one then you can hunt and harvest the way you want.

[cohoundsman]

I agree with what alot of these guys are telling you. If the ol' Gent thinks that the cats are killing everything up there, explain to him that you are in Idaho and its the wolves killing off most of the game.