predator control

[cityslicker]

heres a good article on whats been going on in bc with co's and predator control.


http://www.welcometowilliamslake.ca/ind ... ntrol.html

[cityslicker]

http://www.eab.gov.bc.ca/wildlife/wlsm1 ... 005%28a%29

[Mike Leonard]

Boy this stuff never ceases to amaze me and it goes to prove that it goes on all over.

I know Kyle and Dan Lay and let me tell you they know this business and the predator habits for that area as well as anybody. The hours I have spent conversing with Dan ( or the Old Man) as Kyle calls him, have taken me into a deeper realm of understanding of what makes large predators click. It has been an invaluable source of insight that has helped me as I deal with stock killers in my areas.

The total incompetance, jealousy and audacity of these high minded state and provincial employees proves once again there is very little common sense in government!

[mike martell]

Quote, The total incompetence, jealousy and audacity of these high minded state and provincial employees proves once again there is little common sense in Government.

Mr Leonard. What is the difference between a conservation officer in canada and a Federal USDA agent in the U.S.?

Three left coast states, California, Oregon,Washington are with out a lion season. owning a mounted cougar, Even harvested in another state or province in california comes with penalties of the law. Last year we almost had h.b. 2237 in the bag. (pilot program for cougar) hsus argued sucessfully using California as the role model state for taking away a cougar season, since there ban all cougar issues have ceased. We all know better.

Oregon department of fish and game officails allowed these environmental groups to state these lies and never once did the go on the record and explain how since the ban USDA hired guns are killing more cougar in oregon than prior to the ban in 1994. Did i mention our game department has mandates to usda and agents to kill all treed cougar, Toms, females, kittens?

Select harvesting of trophy class black bears in a controlled setting,Controlled meaning illegal to take a lactating sow with cubs, Treed over hounds have been replaced by cable snares and baits. ODFW defines an "UNKNOWN" BLACK BEAR AS A CUB. 844 killed from 2005-2009 in western oregon, 184 were defined as baby cubs. Called unknown because they were document and dumped over the bank to avoid public out cry.

These numbers represent USDA harvest only and don't include those taken by private contractors. ODFW was mandated to bring forth a black bear management plan in early 2000. ODFW stated it was a top priority. That was over one year ago and the original mandate goes all the way back to early 2000

ODFW recently declined to produce under the freedom of information act as requested,The harvested black bears since the 2010 report, The reason? Don't have the data completed? WHAT! How do you set the 2012 regulations for harvest if you haven't completed this crucial data and harvest numbers?

Here is the kicker, ODFW says they can't trust a houndsman? Well maybe so, But you now can make a sound case in comparison of the worst case scenario of black bear poaching against the State or Federal Government. Sport hound hunters could never slaughter the animals those snares and hired guns manage too.They sure had little problem assigning the fox to guard the chicken coop. They did it and we financed the operation.

The argument about hounds representing the cruel and inhumane aspect. I better not hear one word about how a snare is more humane. I was forced into using them myself. Any supporters of snares just set up a meeting and i will bring used snares for comparison. We here on bgh can't wait to order up one of those high powered California dirt lion hound pups.

We tend to idolize those board members here on big game houndsmen who have taken over our hunting simply because we sport hunters were banned and each state was sharp enough to place provisions for dealing with cougar issues. We had h.b. 2971 in 2007. Oregon exploited this by not using sport hunters as deputized agents( only a select few got hound hunting positions)

We become so enamored with the likes of many dry ground lion hunters who can get it done any time any place to look at the facts! I suspect there would be a whole bunch of whiz bang lion catching hound hunters if we had a Federal fuel card, Federal truck, wages and the ability to hunt 24/7 /365.

Hounds are hounds and killing lions with now approved house bill 3636, Recently signed into law in Oregon, Pan handling game department asking for dollar donations at retail license agents to help the game department pay usda and select agents to hunt and kill animals that belong to we the people.

2009 brought our license and tags to a point of almost double the cost to sport hunters. Evidently that wasn't enough money to satisfy a greedy Game Depertment.

I know there are many usda board members here. Like i explained in person face to face with Oregon's USDA head, David Williams. My position remains the same. I'm not anti USDA, I will stop campaigning against USDA when USDA goes back to depredation hound hunting(actual lion killing stock, Trapping of any predatory mammals etc.) gets out of private sector hound hunting for cougar and snaring black bears for profit.

My source shows we sport hunters pick up fifty cents on every dollar that usda charges private timber producers to snare spring black bears on grounds we used to have free reign and unlimited hound hunting access too. This represents an Obama style bail out of a corporation. This is far from over. Why no hound hunter out rage? I personally think if you are willing to continue to put up with this, you deserve nothing!!!!

[funstuff]

mike,
i agree . it is only going to get worse. especially now that wolves are destroying what game is left. here in southwest mt., i hunt the gallatin, bridger, madison, tobacco root, and crazy ranges, it has become commonplace to find a wolf track on top of a any cat or lion track. the track of felines have become fewer and fewer the last 2 years. i find nothing but kills. it wont stop until all wildlife is dead and the anti gunners can claim that since we cant hunt we dont need guns. it did all start on the coast, then moved to the park for the introduction of a species that has only existed for less than 100 years. we are all going to need help from some almighty form before we lose all rights.
mack

[mike martell]

Mack.....
Time for folks to wake up and start paying attention to the direction we are heading. The wolf issue is fueled by support from the Federal Government. Called Fish and Wildlife to soften the image. Any one watch Crying wolf the movie? Who is behind the wolf in America? Fish and wildlife! 75-80 thousand (estimated numbers)wolves to the north and once they step one foot in the lower 48 they become endangered. Here is something to think about....
environmental actvist list a wolf as endangered or Fish and Wildlife? Look at the trend in our three western states, Cougar have desimated our deer and elk and our game departments have run out of tags to sell and the end is near. Financial ruin for State and Federal employees.....

What does Government do best? Create more problems so you can be a part of the solution for dealing with those problems....Our Oregon state legislature unamiously rejected our bid for a cougar management pilot program, But when i checked on how the same bunch of clowns in Salem voted on H.B.3636.....

Not one vote to reject funding for the Federal government to finance funding for predator control, In short, screw all sport hunters.....who needs them! Why do they do this you ask? Because we get on BGH and tout how wonderful those high caliber californial - Oregon dry ground lion hounds can mop up a cougar....Never mind those select few have just shoved your hunting and mine straight up our tail pipe.

Why should i care....I have a private ranch in S.W. Oregon with unlimited hunting and access to tens of thousands of acres that i can run hounds on untill the cows come home.....But that doesn't include you or lets say i control the setting and no one can tred on my grounds....Fair? should i just keep my mouth shut and enjoy my large slice of the pie or work to change this....I call B.S. on our State and Federal Government and those select venues that exclude 95% of the rest of our sport hunters in Oregon.

The only reason this is getting any play on bgh is because it in in the general forum and not the legislative section.....Follow that section and you will see a topic sit for a month with out any participation what so ever....Proves to me our priorities are messed up and our elected officials are banking on our own lack of involvement or willingness to get involved. Bottom line they continue to receive a free pass for bad behavior...Thank you Buddy W. for allowing this information to remain before the members....

[mike martell]

Check this out....Oregon has a new association called The Oregon Sportsmen's Coalition. Great concept and supported by all major sporting groups including one of Oregon's largest, The Oregon Hunters Association. Founded by Wayne Endicott owner of the bow rack in Springfield Or. and the political lobby for the association being Jerod Broadfoot from Pendleton Or.

Looking to have by 2014 a hound hunting ballot measure to overturn measure 18 in 1994 ban on hounds for both bear and cougar.
I spoke to Jerod and he is very energetic and gaining lots of momentum in the fund raising department, Our conversations have led down the path of who will be the top dollar donors for 2014.

Here is where we part ways in the logic department.....Jerod is thinking he will be granted one million dollars from the northwest timber producers.....His wish list.....Here is reality! One million dollars to a forester will buy thousands of snares and bait....you don't trail a bear off the ownership with a snare anchored to a dead set like a hound. Quiet, Stealthy, effective beyond a hound. Don't need hounds ever again is the mind set of a forester.....

Now lets review what a cougar represents to a timber producer, The death of many ungulates, Hopefully all of them. you see a deer and elk prey on small trees that are near and dear to a forester so the ungulates need to die....All of them. Why do they only unlock the gates during the fall deer and elk seasons only? Nice guys? No, You do the dirty work and actually provide a service to a tree producer.....They want all deer and elk dead.

Here is one for all Oregon hound hunters, Ask for a permit to trap or hunt any predator on private timber lands and see what you get, Arrested if you trespass and criminal with a weapon....Ask to trap a beaver or boomers, you will be greeted as family....

Why will we never have a cougar pilot program in oregon? Large timber corporations lobby dictate to the State Departmenmt of fish and wildlife. Cougar kill deer and are off limits to kill on timber lands.....period! Look at how much land they control in Western Oregon.

Why hasn't ODFW implemented a black bear management plan in well over a decade? Because USDA controlls ODFW. Proof positive when i received the harvest numbers of snared bears from USDA not ODFW! Who should be the authority having jurisdiction over wildlife in Orgon, Should it be ODFW or USDA? I suspect it should be ODFW or better known as the Game Department for good reasons.

The state and Federal Government have paved the way for the long haul, You and I aren't included in their plans.....But hey, How bout those fabulous Federal guys and the infamous dry ground lion catching hounds....Still look better than you and your hounds?

[outlaw13]

Thank you Mike,

Lots of good info, The picture is becoming more clear the more that i read.

[mike martell]

Clint.

Bottom line, When you have options you don't need houndsmen....The State and Federal Government have all the answers and now they have positioned themselves by securing the future for the long haul by passing legislation to fund USDA-APHIS with our money.

This should cause a person to look at why we hunt and the purpose. Sportsmen are a management tool, By this I'm talking about controlling over population, disease etc, all at sustainable levels. Sportsmen contribute with the pittman- robertson act with related products purchased and a percentage of the tax is applied to wild life management. We sportsmen and our dollars are responible for the introduction, reintroduction, maintnance of wild life habitat and restoration, No one else! We are truly the only real environmentalist, conservationist.

I personally think Teddy Rosevelt would roll over in his grave knowing Sport hunters have been removed from hound hunting cougar in three western states and Federal hounds have replaced privately owned and hunted hounds. Our state fish and wildlife, States for the record it can not involve itself in the political process or lobby.

This has been the pattern against sport hunting here in Oregon, Clearly ODFW jumps on the political band wagon to promote USDA. My push last year for a cougar pilot program died after the vote on the house floor....100% of the same house and senate voted to pass H.B.3636, Funding for USDA. For you Oregon hunters who don't get involved, Don't register to vote....Here is how this works....when you buy a over inflated license and tags your agent will ask you to donate money to finance your demise in hunting.

For the record....Here it is. The time has come to expose 100% of the entire population of the State of Oregon to include radical environmental activist, Occupy wall street and inform every single person who despised select havest of black bear with hounds and explain how a snare that catches every single boar, sow, cub is now the management replacement tool for controlling over populated black bears.

We the Oregon voter in 1994 have no compassion for cougar hounds managed in a controlled environment, Have been replaced by Oregon state mandates to kill every cougar either caught in traps or treed over Government hounds. Yes to include females and baby kittens. Approved and headed up by our very own ODFW.

Sorry about hi jacking this thread.....You Canadians are heading down the same path! Conservation officers should continue to enforce wildlife rules and regulations and have no place in the hunting or trapping business. USDA has a place and it pertains only to doing depredation on livestock, crops and trapping over populated predators in conjunction with solid sport hunter involvement in a managed environment, PERIOD!

To think the State and Federal Government is going to replace sport hunting is insane. Pretty simple for you aphis employees who follow this on bgh....Don't think for one second this will continue to pass the smell test. I will quit when this is settled. Go back to what your job was intended to be.