MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Talk about Cougar Hunting with Dogs
HoundDawg
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by HoundDawg »

The SFW has a strong interest in hounding, bears and lions. I don't care if it's Montana, Utah or what state.

Their interest is to see as many bears and lions die as possible, and to have hounds on the mountain as little as possible. Anything they say to the contrary, you are being lied to!

If you are a deer hunter with a couple of hounds and your interest is killing lions to save deer, you'll do just fine in the SFW, hell you'll probably become President up there.

But if you are a real hound guy and your interest is hounds, training hounds, and hunting lions and bears you will soon wish you'd never heard of them. They are an organization focused heavily on Sheep, Elk and Deer. Their interest in predators is eliminating them, period. They have an extensive track record in Utah, and have done some really great things. Unfortunately, none of that has been for hounding. But they are passionate and they try hard to get things done.

I don't have time to tell you everything I've learned about them watching the past 15+ years, all I can say to Montana houndsmen is good luck with them. Don't say you weren't warned. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

PS. And be careful about what you hear and believe, because they love to toot their own horns. But the fact in Utah is that after 15 years of aggressive aggressive lion harvest and over-harvest, and millions of dollars spent, our deer herd is the worst it's ever been, and our lion hunting is the worst it's ever been.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. And if you want to hear a lot of talk and promises that sound too good to be true... the SFW will suit you just fine. :) :)
Lost River
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by Lost River »

Well I have treed around 300 cats and shot 2 so that is where I am with cats. As far as being president of MT SFW, I was the VP, but just didn't have enough time. I have been asked to be back on the board of directors. If there is any die hard houndsmen here in Montana that would be interested in being on the board of directors contact me, I think the best way to be sure an organization is going the direction you want it to be actively involved. I am thinking if we have two or three die hard houndsmen on the board that would be a good start? Any takers?
I agree that the Utah group focuses way too much on lion and bears, that is why I am staying very active up here. I don't want to see our organization do the same.
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by black eye »

Well #2 with sfw/sfh (byron bateman) in Utah is a "houndsman" or as I like to call him a deer hunter with dogs. He just lets the sfw do what they want on bears and lions because he has NO CHANCE.

#3 John bair (deer hunter with dogs) the president has dogs and knows better and has pretty much hung it up for lack of lions.

And guess what the majority rules and they loose every time. But both makes an awesome salary with this group of deer hunters. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The angle of houndsmen in control has already failed down here!
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Lost River
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by Lost River »

So if I read everyone's recommendations I should throw my hands up and walk away? Don't try to stay involved and be sure my and other hound hunters interests are respresented?
I am wondering if anyone knows of any organizations that are truly active and getting anything accomplished here in Montana to do with this wolf debacle and really active with fish and game related topics? And please don't say the wildlife federation...
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larry
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by larry »

lions and bears are gonna have enough of an uphill battle. They are gonna get thrown in with the wolves every chance that comes around. Don't need any more organizations than we already have trying to put the hurt on them.
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by BIGBLUES »

So if I read everyone's recommendations I should throw my hands up and walk away? Don't try to stay involved and be sure my and other hound hunters interests are respresented?
I am wondering if anyone knows of any organizations that are truly active and getting anything accomplished here in Montana to do with this wolf debacle and really active with fish and game related topics? And please don't say the wildlife federation...


That's exactly what I'm seeing. I have not seen one single hound association in Montana that is fighting the wolf issue. To tell you the truth I don't see them doing anything. I hope that this post reaches out to some houndsmen on here and they decide to join the fight. The only way to protect your rights is to stand up for them. Like Casey said, he is active with MONTANA SFW that way he can steer his opinion into the mix and keep the FWP from throwing Lions under the bus and decimating the population. Try to look at the big picture, I don't want my kids to loose every opportunity that we had and have as hunters. Just keep throwing your hands up and fighting every person that is working together with others to accomplish a common goal. Won't be long and western Montana will be applying for elk tags. Oh wait we already are. I bet you guys that are against MSFW saw that one coming right? What about mule deer? Yeah that's right we are drawing for those too. Maybe we can sit back a while longer and see if whitetails are on the menu next. Boy I imagine without very many elk and deer running around it would be hard to support a healthy lion population. Oh well, maybe we should just shut down the lion hunting all together and name our state California and start calling everyone "dude". We have already lost too much in this state partially because people just sit back and watch or throw there hands up and fight others.
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larry
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by larry »

BIGBLUES wrote: What about mule deer? Yeah that's right we are drawing for those too.


You are drawing for mule deer because the entire east side of the bitterrroot is a trophy unit, and it is not hurting in the mule deer dept one stinkin bit. your elk have pretty much been eaten by wolves tho, that is true.

Seems off to me that all of a sudden, now that it's too late, its time to freak out and get involved. Thats just it, its too late, the damage has been done, history with the wolf will repeat itself, its getting there, Idaho is setting the pace, we will follow. You really wanna help? instead of blow hot air on the net and join groups with alterior motives, invest in the problem. MB-750's, amberg snares, and a fast flat shooting rifle. I'm willing to bet that there are alot of people out there that are taking care of things firsthand in a lot more productive way than you are willing to, but you can't seem to leave this alone because you are so dedicated to the problem, not that dedicated apparently or you wouldn't be on here talking, you'd be out and about doing.......
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by Bearkiller »

BIGBLUES wrote: Won't be long and western Montana will be applying for elk tags. Oh wait we already are.




Just wait until SFW takes half your tags and sells them to the highest bidder.............
Don't buy the hype.

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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by Doogie »

Lost River is already their poster child...
Lost River wrote:...If they want to see 20 cats killed in a unit then give out 40 tags, but have a 20 cat quota? Then at least we won't have units being overrun with trucks and dog boxes on Feb 1 when an area hasn't reached a limit. Just a thought, it would at least make it easier for us hound guys to draw a tag, and I am thinking in a a couple more years these people without dogs will figure out to quit putting in for a tag that they have no chance of using

Ever think that the reason only 6 cats get killed, instead of 20 in that unit is because the population isn't there???

The lions are already taking the blame for the wolves in the Bitterroot. I'm sure some of the 20 radio collared elk calves would still be alive if the wolves hadn't run the cats off their kills before they finished eating on them. Anyone else watch the program about the cats in Jackson Hole a few months back, guess not.
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by BIGBLUES »

larry wrote:
BIGBLUES wrote: What about mule deer? Yeah that's right we are drawing for those too.


You are drawing for mule deer because the entire east side of the bitterrroot is a trophy unit, and it is not hurting in the mule deer dept one stinkin bit. your elk have pretty much been eaten by wolves tho, that is true.

Seems off to me that all of a sudden, now that it's too late, its time to freak out and get involved. Thats just it, its too late, the damage has been done, history with the wolf will repeat itself, its getting there, Idaho is setting the pace, we will follow. You really wanna help? instead of blow hot air on the net and join groups with alterior motives, invest in the problem. MB-750's, amberg snares, and a fast flat shooting rifle. I'm willing to bet that there are alot of people out there that are taking care of things firsthand in a lot more productive way than you are willing to, but you can't seem to leave this alone because you are so dedicated to the problem, not that dedicated apparently or you wouldn't be on here talking, you'd be out and about doing.......



I spend enough time out there I don't need to defend myself. Look up Xylitol and figure it out.
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by Badlandcat »

BigBlue
been in the root and all I can say is you are lucky to have any elk at all to draw for!! I have hunted many states and I have never seen so many hunters in my life, add on the poachers and its a wonder there is any elk at all. If it wasn't for the CB ranch there wouldn't be any at all. I am not saying wolves don't eat elk as they do, but you guys didn't even come close to making quota, so whats up with that? or the lions for that matter.
There are enough deer hunters with dogs around to fill the quota if the lions are there.
Until the 5 week rifle season is changed you will never see the elk come back even if you kill all the wolves, lions and bears. JMO
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by BIGBLUES »

Badlandcat wrote:BigBlue
been in the root and all I can say is you are lucky to have any elk at all to draw for!! I have hunted many states and I have never seen so many hunters in my life, add on the poachers and its a wonder there is any elk at all. If it wasn't for the CB ranch there wouldn't be any at all. I am not saying wolves don't eat elk as they do, but you guys didn't even come close to making quota, so whats up with that? or the lions for that matter.
There are enough deer hunters with dogs around to fill the quota if the lions are there.
Until the 5 week rifle season is changed you will never see the elk come back even if you kill all the wolves, lions and bears. JMO


I agree with you on the elk and the CB ranch. From what I have been told it takes a 33% calf success rate to maintain a elk herd. I believe we are somewhere between 3-7% in the Bitterroot. They need to shut in down in the Bitterroot or it wont get any better. The FWP are the idiots that we can thank for that. What did they think would happen if you let everyone have a cow tag. Now with the wolves it leaves the elk with no chance to gain numbers.
There is alot of private in the bottom of the Bitterroot along the east and west sides making it hard to access for hunting wolves. I don't understand your question about the lions? Are you asking about the lion quota?
As far as what I have seen there is plenty of lions down the Bitterroot. Not very many permit holders with dogs.
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by Badlandcat »

In a couple of the 200 units close to me the cat killers will contact each and every permit holder and offer their services, I am just guessing that same thing happens in the root.
Helped with a 270 deer tag couple years ago and we walked many miles in Nov and cut a total of 1 lion track, but we only hunted public land and only hunted 12 days.
And no the tag did not get filled, with the amount of hunters there I can't see anything living very long. JMO
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by BIGBLUES »

Badlandcat wrote:In a couple of the 200 units close to me the cat killers will contact each and every permit holder and offer their services, I am just guessing that same thing happens in the root.
Helped with a 270 deer tag couple years ago and we walked many miles in Nov and cut a total of 1 lion track, but we only hunted public land and only hunted 12 days.
And no the tag did not get filled, with the amount of hunters there I can't see anything living very long. JMO


Oh I'm sure it does. Its been a couple years since I hunted down the East fork and the West fork. But when I did hunt down there we would tree one almost everytime. Always found at least one track, sometimes several.
There is a ton of country down here and a lot of the time you wont see any lions during the fall rifle season. I think a lot of them hang in the higher country and thick crud as well as the private ground where they are safer. The Bitterroot had a combination of alot of thing going bad and it really hurt the elk populations.
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Re: MONTANA SPORTMEN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE

Post by BIGBLUES »

Here's what I think needs to happen. Shut down the elk hunting in the bitterroot for 1-2 years so numbers can gain. Hammer the wolves with trapping, shooting, poison and anything else that works. Continue the Lion harvest with an adequate quota that's not too aggressive. Such as 10 lions per unit, give or take depending on the population. And allow the use of hound and baiting bears. That is my opinion on the situation from what I know. Now getting FWP to do anything.... well good luck. I don't consider myself as someone said on here a "deer hunter with hounds". I consider myself an all around hunter, whether its deer, elk, lions, bears, or god damn gophers. I like to hunt and have plenty of opportunity to harvest animals as well as preserve them. I realize that Montana is a very diverse state with the game that it holds. I appreciate all the input, as I think it will only give us a better understanding of other peoples thoughts and opinions. The bottom line is we need to stick together and fight for our hunting, fishing, trapping, and outdoor recreational rights. If anyone has a better idea on how to go about any of this I am all ears and would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks
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