The Legends??? Lets see what is Fact and what is Legend!

[cox]

I don't come from a hound hunting family so when I first got into hounds some years ago I read everything I could get my hands on about hounds, hound hunting, and houndmen. I read alot about Ben Lilly and if anything his stories fueled the fire for me to hunt with hounds. Obviously the days of following hounds for days on end with just a bedroll and a few rudimentary supplies are long gone, and being a father myself I no longer seek to follow the hawk as Ben was said to do. However if it weren't for the stories and sometimes exaggerations of the old time hunters there may be some young would be hunters out there who never got that little push to follow the hounds and see where it takes them. I have a great father and he has always supported me and my decisions good or bad and he has been a role model for me. After I got into hounds and my dogs started catching game I talked my dad into coming along bear hunting. At 58 he shot his first bear and I was standing right beside him it's a time I will never forget. Two years later I was standing right beside my 12 year old son when he harvested his first bear another time I will never forget. If anything houndhunting has brought my family closer together and in a small way I have Ben Lilly to thank for it. So before we go bashing the guy for his faults (we all have em) let's remember the guys out there that need a houndsman to look up to because we don't all come from a hound hunting family and have a dad or uncle or grandfather to show us the way in the outdoors. I'm rambling a bit but I feel as though I've made my point Ben Lilly may not be a hero but he has done alot of good for hunting in general if nothing else inspiring young hunters to follow the hounds and see where it takes em. Thanks Dan

[Rod Vinson]

Probally the best thread I have ever read on this site. I also didn't come from a hunting family, I was just a kid that loved the outdoors and animals.. I can remember on Saturday morning when I was 8 watching the trucks go with the dogs heads hanging out the side and then returning later in the day with no heads hanging out and deer on top of the dog boxes... I day dreamed at school them guys picking me and carrying me with them....then one day it happened...and I didnt care much about the deer hunting but loved the hounds. We would fox hunt them same dogs..there weren't many deer and you would ride for hours looking for that buck track so deer never affected many fox races (some but not many). My 1st dogs were beagles, I took my barning tobacco money and bought me a nice female the another then another and so on and so on. I had 21 beagles that could run the fire out of a rabbit and I traveled with a tractor and a wood trailer with a dog box..Boy was I a bad dude...if you didn't shoot when you saw the rabbit you didn't get another chance my ole mutts would catch him...then I progessed with the running walkers and now today here I am, from mid October to the end of February I am looking a cat track and run a fox or two when conditions favor...During the summer I love the green bean running of foxes, they just run at your feet like the cats....Hero or Heroes??? My Dad was my hero and he has always supported what I have done and my mom as well...My mom use to raise my pups and when I went off to college her and daddy took care of my dogs until I got home on the weekends... My Grand daddy was also my hero, he was a man with lots of love for his family and a hard working man that provided for his family...He was a great farmer and he was a great neighbor as well, he would give you the shirt off his back! ...and no I will never be a hero or the greatest hound owner of all time or the one that catches the most cat or so on and so on... I would like to be known as a christian man that was a great husband and a good daddy just like my dad and his dad and his dad!!!

[007pennpal]

The animals and the mountains are my heros that legends are made of. God's creation. Not the concurring the land or beast, but the blessing of being part of the beautiful struggle. No other man's struggle impresses me, the stories only urge me forward to experiences yet to come.
Sean

[freetrapper42]

My grandpa followed the hawk most of his life. He hunted all over the country and canada and has had the opportunity to hunt just about everything in North America. He retired at the age of 46 in a little cabin along the San Juan River. He is now 80 yrs old and has been hunting, trapping, and fishing whenever the urge took him. As a child he would tell me all of his hunting stories and show me the slides of his kills which always inflamed the urge in me to run off and follow the hawk myself. When I got older I realized the great cost my Grandpa had paid for all that freedom. He spent so much time away while my aunts and uncles were young that they grew to resent him and my Grandma grew to hate him. He always made sure that they had what they needed and has taken care of all of them their whole lives but you can see the resentment in the fact that now that he is old and alone I am the only one that still visits. He must have realized what was important in life once me and my cousin came along because he spent a lot of time teaching us about the outdoors and the animals in it. I now take my Grandpa hunting and cherish every second we have together no matter how frustrating he can be at times. I learned a lot from him including what is truly important in life. Even though my wife doesn't believe it her and my little girl will always come before my urge to chase the hawk.

[Benny G]

Mr. Clay,
As always I enjoy reading the topics that you write and inspire.
All of these replies show honor given to someone. What a nice change of pace in a world that dictates we seek the most fame and recognition for ourselves as possible.

Should I die tomorrow, I would rather my head stone read loving husband and father than famous lion and bear hunter.

sourdough

Given the opportunity, I would add "And one darn fine freind!!"

[catmando]

This went from Legends to Heroes, Big diffrence, Legend= A notable person whose deeds or exploits are much talked about in his or her own time. HERO= a person admired for qualities or achievements and regarded as a ideal or model.

[shawn cole]

mother nature without her we have nothing

[MexicanJoe]

Folks this thread came about to my pondering a Post by Catdog 360 in witch he wrote what some will feel are disparaging remarks about the Lee brothers. He then said that his two heroes were his Father and Ben Lilly.

Now I applaud any one who recognizes that while in most cases they are not perfect, our Fathers are darn sure HEROES!

Ben Lilly, well I am not so sure I would ever want to call him a Hero. When I hear his name I am reminded of a line from one of my favorite John Ford/John Wayne movies. This one stared the Duke, Jimmy Stewart, and Lee Marvin – “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence”. At the end of the movie when the Newspaper editor had the true story at last from Senator Jimmy Stewart (the man who had supposedly shot the notorious Outlaw Liberty Valence), the editor tore his notes off the notebook, threw them into the pot belly stove, and said to the Senator that when “The Legend is a better story than the Facts, Print the Legend!” No where is this truer than with Mr. Lilly!

As a Single Focused Hunter, there has probably been very few to top him; but as a Responsible Man, not so much. At various times he left his Families, Business endeavors, Hunting Associates and Clients to “Follow the Hawk”(see the tale from J. Frank Dobies “Legend of Ben Lilly”) what ever the “Hawk” was at the time.

There are several good Books out about Lilly and most try to show his Warts as well as his accomplishments. The book “The Big Thicket Legacy” is a place to go to get a True look a Lilly as a Hunter in the company of other good Hunters. In the shadow of these local Hunter/Houndsmen he appears to be an also ran.

We were fortunate (when I was a very young kid, who was Seen and not Heard in the early 1960s, riding with Dad) to Hunt with Stan Warren in the Big Thicket of Texas. Stan was a Houndsman 1st class, bred his own Hounds and caught lots of Cat, yet never hunted more than 100 miles from home, usually less than 30.

When he was a kid Ben was still in the Thicket and hunted with the Warrens and their Friends. His story was Ben never raised any Hounds, just hunted what folks gave him. His knack, Skill if you will was that he was in the woods all the time and studied his quarry till he knew its habits, then would find the Varmint’s hot Track and sick his Hounds on it.

Mr. Warren said that as far as he could remember Ben Lilly never had a Broke Hound/Dog and did not want one. If he found a Bear, Hog, Lion, Big Buck, Fat Doe, Wild Cow or Bull, or whatever, he wanted his Hounds/Dogs to run it and run it to catch it.

Friends of ours who grew up in the new Mexico country Ben Lilly habited in his later years say that the locals remember Ben as not changing much from his Big Thicket Days. He hunted what ever Hounds/Dogs he acquired in the area he was hunting. The Legend of the Lilly Hounds ever being bred is just that. I can find NO documented evidence that he ever Bred Hounds with a Plan or that he even raised many on his own. He would maybe breed a Female at a ranch and get a pup or just get some pups ready to start from ranchers in the area he hunted. Reading about his habits of hunting, traveling, camping wherever the Track took him certainly would make raising Pups a challenge.

One credible story has it that a young fellow was hauling supplies in to Ben and when he got to Ben’s camp, ole Ben was doctoring Hounds as he had caught a Bad Bear and had lost some Hounds as well as the injured. Ben told the young man that when he came back to bring him some more Hounds. The fellow asked where he should get them; Ben replied ask around see what the Dog catcher in the City has that looks like it might would work. The fellows family was headed to the City in a few days and he was able to get several Hounds/Dogs there and some from ranchers to take to Ben.

Ben apparently could be a bit of a Scoundrel at times. One story is that when he was catching Lions he would take the Hides to several Ranchers and collect the bounty from each for the same Cat. They caught on and started making Ben leave the Hide when they paid him.

Anyway just some things we have found out researching him. A dedicated devoted Hunter no doubt. Mr. Mike Leonard, I believe said on another Post that today Ben would be diagnosed as an “Idiot Savant”. I am not sure what that is but Ole Ben certainly was a Character……Hero…..well I am not so sure.

Google Books about Ben Lilly, there are several out there besides the Dobie book. A good one is by Hibbon. Here is a link to some good Lilly info:

http://www.sonsofsavages.blogspot.com/2 ... lilly.html

Let’s see what others have found out about some of the Legends?

Have you ever read the book about the lees written by my Mccurdy cousin, cover has one of them with a old gun craddled in his arms leaning on a shack or something, my copies all got ruined and i dont see it anywhere, i think the author is in the pen in arkansas last i heard but may be dead or out by now, that was years ago?? Does anybody know the name of a lee book written by a Mcurdy for sale anywhere or ever seen it, think it was some kind of written in prison book or something, cant remeber anymore to tell the truth. Lots of the legends were not and lots of litttle unknown guys really were seams like after all and all is said and done. Most of the authors did not own hounds or even hunt so not hard to figure when th ebooks get windy windylol