What to do when ?

[Tim Pittman]

The smart dogs I've seen do not run the same track,same direction again[without me walking them down it]but might try to take the other end of it.This is where the negative comes in and they'll have a hard time trusting you,when you want to turn them around in the future on good game[thinking back to you setting them up on previous circumstances].Dogs are fairly simple and imprintable at times in their lifes,they must be able to directly associate punishment with the crime,and setting catdogs up on a continual basis will take an edge off of them that is desirable to keep--trusting you,and hunting for you.

[newby]

Smart or not, I have seen dogs run a covered track...and if they wanted to run it that bad in the first place, they may do it again. Just a thought, I'm not saying I have done that or even that I would, just saying it could possibly be a tool in your toolbag to deal with a dog or dogs that have a penchant for a particular peice of trash if you didn't catch them in the act the first time around. I wouldn't walk them out a trash track with the intention of setting them up, but if they struck it again I'd sure turn on their backs this time around.

[Warner5]

It sounds like some of us are thinking about gamey, un-bent dogs. And then others are thinking. Bent, broke hounds. I agree with Tim, if were talking bent, broke hounds. But if we are talking about gamey, trash runners. By all means do whatever you can think of to slow em down. , John.

Unreal-tk, this one has been fun. I like shit running topics. How I caught my 1st cat was my dogs had already ran every deer & coyote out of the area, the poor ole cat was the only thing left to run.

[Tim Pittman]

These are just my opinions and views for me
1.old dogs and young dogs who've been on good game and are READY to go on older tracks or at the start of a track,that break off good game and switch to bad,one of two things I didn't do my starting correctly or if the dog does it again after I correct him for it more than a time or two,he either gets laid up for a time or they do not eat my food any longer.---Again probably I lacked in their foundation,they hunt with me not me with them.
2.unstarted pups or lightly exposed young ones are to be setup in a winning situation,good track,turned in on the jump etc. to build a solid foundation of exposure on GOOD game first so I can tell them later what is bad game.As I personally do not do drags or roll cages or things of that nature,and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it,I just go with what works for me.I'm still wanting them to get the idea that they're hunting for me,so they start to trust I'm putting them on to something good and later down the road when they take over and it's bad game it's uncomfortable for them.
3.Spend enough time with all the dogs[young and old]at home for them to read you enough for them to know what is good and bad,by your voice,body posture etc.I see this transition over to field more than one would think.
4.I try to keep in mind that dogs are supersiticous by nature and associate things[species of game and or objects]with what they've experienced by being shocked or scolded for.[The proffesional canine trainers for police dogs and protection work no longer use shock collars,after studies showed the dogs related objects or behaviors to a supersticious reaction of being shocked---example they thought the the table they were not supposed to get on was shocking them,kinda of screwed them up when it came time for them to have to jump up on atble later on to apprehend the suspect.].This turned a light on for me,to think about on what level they are actually thinking on[reasoning].
5.Trust goes both ways,first I try to be as perfect in their eye's as possible,and by enough positive scenarios of me reading them,I give SOME trust back their way,but never 50/50 as they hunt with me,I'm the pack leader.

[007pennpal]

Could be I'm simple minded, but it sounds pretty simple to fix. Basic problem. I'd stop hunting game and go to the trashiest spot. I'd set them up because they already showed their cards. I'm gonna play my hand when I've got aces though. I don't do more than one set up at a time, between good game. I want them strung for the game not scarred from the trash. So the communication from your dogs was that you had some work to do. Just a bit of house keeping.

[slowandeasy]

this will make many laugh at this statement. but personally i don' have alot of patience for a hound that starts on good game and switches to off game. but smart dogs alot of times when they have had trash breaking experiences. will skip on out and start on off game and get switched to the game we are targeting to avoid the attitude adjustment. this will probably get laughed at, but the ones that laugh the loudest are probably the ones that will never figure out it is happening. and reward it with praise at the tree. it needs to be addressed when it starts but will take experienced eyes and ears for the timing to be wright. take care

[dwalton]

Slowandeasy:Iyou referred to one of the biggest things that houndmen do wrong training a young dog. They teach them to avoid you and teach them to run off game by there trash breaking methods. Just my opinion. I will start another post as to training. Dewey

[Warner5]

I would like to hear more Tim, Although different I have seen some reactions from my dogs after they have tangled with the ranchers electric fence's, that left me scratching my head.

slowandeasy, dogs that start a track together should end a track together. Split races really get my attention. As do so called cats caught on the ground.(Both rare here, for me). Thank you. John.

[slowandeasy]

the hounds are really smarter then we think. i know early on when i trash broke hounds in a much more harsh way. and did alot more coonhunting the dogs would often be having a hard time on a track (that i already suspected to be trash bobcat or greys)would half ass locate then convince themself to tree. than when i would almost get to the tree they leave and strike again out further. some that really didn't know any better would say the coon tapped the tree. the only truth to this is that the dogs knew something was about to get more than tapped and it was their hind end. this is what is bad about them being afraid of you, this was long before the tone button and shock levels were in existance. take care