Question about rigging

[Unreal_tk]

I like Andys answers to all these rigging and cat hunt questions. It keeps all the new comers and some of the old timers sitting at home when there are poor condtions.
Jeremy I personally catch more cats now that I have a good rig dog than before I had one. Every year is differant some years I catch more rigging and some years I catch more roading. I do not rig or road when there is good snow only in the poor conditions, You ask how many more? I would have to say about 3%

Can't catch if you don't try!

[kehrer10]

All I asked was a serious question but it seems that a couple experts just want to compare dick size. Not all cats will cross the road, I know some will parallel the road and you will never see these tracks. That is why I asked the question. Obviously I'm not going to throw my dogs on the box when it's 30 below. Live to hunt and dewey thanks for the real answer.Andy I wouldn't think anyone would actually want to show us their secrets but I can ask. I don't know crap about hound hunting, I am not an expert just trying to learn and figure out more ways to get my dogs on tracks. I realize it is much easier to find a nice cat track in fresh snow but our conditions on the eastern side of Montana are far from ideal, that is why I want to try any means possible. That being said if you've got a personall vendetta for one person don't hijack my thread just to puff out your chest and act like a computer tough guy. A lot of the newer guys on here, including myself want to learn.

[kehrer10]

Cobalt, the terrain I hunt( its a little different than twists) for bobcats is pretty much sage brush with rock ledges and a few islands of isolated pockets of pines. Most of the time the snow is drifted and crappy. It's not always that cold but for the most part the ground is bare and frozen. I know these conditions suck for tracking but would figure a cat is gonna brush up against some sage brush or something. I don't care if I have a lock down super star rig dog that rigs cats a mile away from the track I just want to up the number of tracks by adding in a couple I don't see.

[twist]

Jeremy, you are sure right the only way to find out is give it a try that way you know first hand. If you cant get it to work maybe try another strain of hounds . Thats the way I learned. That little female you sent me a picture of looks like a hand full. For the few that are glad I tell it like it is in this area trying to help young hunters from alot of wasted time and money so the real good houndsmen can be out catching bobcats well I am home on them cold, dry, frozen ground windy days rigging and catching cats my hat if off to you. Andy

[cobalt]

kehrer10- Sorry that I let my ego get in the way of good judgement and let what I think twists negativity is depriving people of thinking that things are impossible when I think they're plausable get me riled. I should just make my point and opinion on the topic and move on. As I said, I feel if people put limits on their hunting styles, that's good for those who think proactively. I think by twist now saying you CAN rig cats there, but it is now a matter of not being able to catch them consistantly, well that confuses me because if you can rig em, you can run em and if you can run em, you can catch em. I've hunted a lot of snow and it is much, much easier than dry ground, not necessarily because of the dogs, but more because it's harder for the hunter to make the dogs. Cats can be tough in all conditions and areas. Consistency to me has to do with ability of success over time. This is why so many top cat hunters are so picky about the dogs they keep. If you mess around with a dog whose consistency is low in the conditions you hunt, but another dogs consistency is higher, get rid of the lesser. Always try to raise the bar of success IF THAT IS YOUR GOAL.
I looked at a few hundred pics of the Stillwater County area and it is very beautiful and I would say it is very much like the country around Bend, Oregon and all the way up and down the eastern front of the Cascade Mtns. With no snow, a person needs a dog with above average nose to rig and put a line on a track and keep it going through the more open country and of course a bit of speed to finish.
Rigging in the dry is a hit and miss style. There are a lot of times dogs will rig and look, but not find the track. This is typically when a hunter feels the futility of that style. The dogs are in charge, not the hunter. You might get 10 strikes for every 1 you can start. That's apart of the game and it needs to be understood. You want a dog that overstrikes rather than understrikes. Refinement of how the dogs do this is up to you. If you are gearing your dogs to start every track they strike, you will most likely be going backwards. What I've done in the past is when I get a lighter strike is to roll through it several hundred yards then turn around and go through it again a bit faster and see if they strike it again. This helps me gauge what is going on. If you have put out on it and they don't start it. Drive a couple hundred yards down the road and road them through the strike spot. You have to play it with some strategy. If a dog looks like he is trying really hard, walk him in a hundred yard perimeter to get him to expand his search. Starting tracks off the rig can take twenty minutes for even a good dog. These are just my suggestions and are a very small part of the whole process of making a really fun rig dog. You MUST have the right dog to do it and know you have the right dog. Good luck to you.

[twist]

If anyone reads through my old post I have always said rigging can be done here just not consistant. When saying that a person might drive a 1000 miles or more before he gets lucky enough to get a hot enough track to run to me that is a waist of time and money. I am sure not the only one that hunts cats in this state that cant rig consistantly. Where are all the guys around here that are doing it please jump on here and invite me along to observe so maybe I can learn a thing or to about this area that I have over looked I will even buy the gas and all expenses just to see it done on a consistant basis. A person cant get any better offer than that. thanks, Andy

[live to hunt]

Andy do you do rig training with your dogs? Cobalt just gave some very valuable info on rigging dogs and what to do to help them. You may realize that you do not have to drive 1000 miles to rig a cat. on the other hand I would drive 2000 miles to run a cat just for the time and experince spent with my dogs.

[Tim Pittman]

Jeremy,you probably have way more ideas and advice thrown at you here than one can know what to do with.IMO if you use the dogs for striking in all conditions they get better and better.Like alot of guys,as Dewey mentioned I have big enough holes in the side of the box for the dogs to get their heads out into the air,really helps them start working the wind.I believe a trainable dog of any breed can be trained/developed--to do or participate in doing about anything there is.BUT I wouldn't pick a clydedale to run in the kentucky derby,I believe rig dogs CAN be trained[coaxed,shown etc.]but dogs with the natural propensity to strike[from within or on top]from the rig,will be the very best at their game.I do not have a vested interest in any line or breed--yet.And have tried dogs from 10 different states--from Washington[nw]all the way to North Carolina,have almost tried every color as well,papered and grade,I'm convinced the naturally gifted dogs are MY favorites.They will strike cats from 0-90degrees[my experience,have heard,colder and hotter]in moist or arid conditions,timber or desert etc. etc.Like anything else it needs to be done with consistancy to develop one to its full potential,then I believe anyone would agree,they are such an asset--You'll never wanna be without one.

[twist]

live to hunt, believe me I have tried rigging for many years a alot of different dogs and strains. I have had houndsmen from other parts of the country that have very good rig dogs try it here with no consistant out come, why is that? Do you think I am going to jump on here and say it cant be done if I havent tried! I am always learning everyday I go out with my hounds but over the past 30 yrs I have also learned a thing or two about cat hounds and the area I hunt as I have lived and hunted the same area for them 30 yrs. I could not have asked any nicer for someone to show or teach me and have also offered to pay all expenses for anyone to show me it can be done consistantly because if it could I would be do it. I will be waiting for someone to take me up on my offer. It has struck me odd that no Montana guys have got on any of these post about rigging and invited me along or is it maybe we as Montanans are just not good enough houndsmen to make strike dogs that catch bobcat here? Andy

[live to hunt]

Andy just keep telling everyone it cannot be done (consistently )

[twist]

My offer stands for you lets go I can play with the dogs any day any time please give me a call. I will be waiting like a kid in a candy store. 406-281-3783. My dogs will ride the box for miles and never say a word and they do know what a cat smells like. Have had them open on rig and catch smoking hot track that just crossed but that is 1 in a 1000 miles or more and over a long amount of time that is sure not consistancy. I also see you said your % went up 3% since you started rigging to me that is far from consistant. jmo Andy

[slowandeasy]

guys they are just dogs. but something i have picked up through the years when it comes to what different dogs can and can't do is DO NOT SAY NEVER ABOUT ANYTHING PERTAINING TO DOGS!

[twist]

slowandsteady you are correct. I dont believe I have said that nothing could never be done with a hound. Andy

[cobalt]

twist-How many miles do you have to drive to find a track in good snow, daily?
If you find an hour or 2 hour old track in good snow (temp. 15 dregrees) and drove past it, then put your dogs up on the box and drove back through it, would your dogs strike it?

This is not to set you up, just want honest info., but these are loaded questions for sure.
If you say under 100 miles to the first question, then you have plenty of cats to make good cat dogs.
If you say you can't, or you don't know, or they will do it with good snow on the ground, but not on frozen or dry ground to the second question, then I would have to assume that you don't own a dog that is either versed in rigging or is a rig dog at all. I mean no offense by this because if dogs aren't versed or encouraged or trained to hit on those tracks all their lives, they won't just start doing it out of the blue.
You say there are guys with good rig dogs that can't do it in your neck of the woods. Are they from Mt.? Are they cat rig dogs? Why don't they get on here and say " yea, we have great bobcat rig dogs and we went down to twists place and drove around for a month and never rigged a cat and we know there's a lot of cats there"?
I don't understand the consistency thing. Do you mean to say that you know dogs are missing tracks that are runable? Are you saying they are unrunable even if you strike them? Are you saying dogs can only strike and catch hot tracks? Are you saying you catch every track you put out on in good snow? Are they medium to hot tracks you are running and is snow just a security?
Can you answer these questions to humor me.
A few more questions; Have you ever hunted bobcat 200 or more miles away from your home and have you rigged them there? And, do you catch a lot of cats in your opinion? How many months out of the year could you catch cats?

[twist]

cobalt I am glad I am humoring you. Please come for a hunt this next season you may just enjoy it as believe it or not I am an ok guy and yes I do catch a high % of the cats I run on snow. Have you ever heard me say I can take my dogs out to so and sos place and catch cats that he cant no because just MAYBE I cant. Have you heard me say ever that the conditions are crappy here and I need snow to hunt I just patiently wait until it does then I hunt and go out and do my thing. I dont need to hunt when there is no snow I do just fine when the snow comes! I also want to ask have you ever hunted your hounds in this area? I have a pretty good saying (never brag about your hounds they WILL make a lier out of you sooner or later.) I am also waiting for the call from the gentleman up the road from me would enjoy the company and watch his dogs work here! I will keep hunting the snow and try to keep quite about rigging in this area and let the new cocomers learn the hard way but I sure will have to bite my lip because I have a hard time with a bullsh ter. Andy