Papered Bobcat dogs

[dwalton]

Al: 200 hundred cats is a lot of cats for a year. In the year 2010 I keep records ever day out hunting here and California. I treed 106 that I saw in the tree several trees[18] that I was sure the cat was there and did not see and caught 8 on the ground and holed close to 20 . I know a guy that has caught more cats than I have for the last 2 years but you will never see him on here. There are guys that still catch over that in other states. The guy that catches more than I do hunts on the coast and in your area. He took 13 one week just east of where you live. As far as register dogs the best cat dog that I owned was a registered treeing walker. There is still a lot of her blood around none of it registered that I know of. The registered dogs are good dogs not just what I am looking for. All of the registered treeing walkers have running dog blood in them I have always felt that is what made them so good we have just gotten to far from that running blood to suit me. Dewey

[slowandeasy]

hey dewy, after thinking about it during supper you are probably right about the running dog being to far back to make a real impact with the walkers. as in reality they started out being culls that treed in the running dogs. and they have bred pretty heavy for treeing instinct. and the english registered were a melting pot of everything and were really tuff when they were single registering them. now i hear them talking about just having something with just redticks only oh well i guess color must be important! but with both of those breeds maybe just more years than i care to admit have gone by to actually put hands on some of the stuff we talked about. take care!

[newby]

David, don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I like what Dad's Dogboy said,

"Papered" does not have to mean registered with any Association. KEEPING RECORDS with descriptions of the talents of each Hound is what "Papered" should mean.

The dogs I have now, are mixes of different "breeds", but I know the ancestors for almost 30 years back. I have pictures of them and know what kind game they excelled at, and what type of hound they produced. That to me is the best "paper" one can have on a hound. These are grade dogs and are priced as such, but what I'm driving at is why spend extra money if I don't have to to get the type of hound I want and have a good idea what type of hound I'm gonna get when I make a cross? To me, that's a more pure strain of hound bred to replace the dogs that preceded them to get the job done they needed done and its not dilluted by breeding just because you have a big name stud and need to put your kid through college. Just my opinions and I'm old enough to know that I'm wrong most of the time. Anyway, if I were to try a registered dog for cats, I'd probably go with a Leopard dog.

[al baldwin]

Dewey i don/t doubt you are a very good hunter & have very good dogs. I don/t question the # you gave for 2010. I do find it hard to believe that all the cats you run are easy to tree as you make it sound. Noticed you stated this past winter you were hunting where no one else hunted & were tired of the snow. Two things that would increase ones success. I do believe If one has 18 trees that you cannot find the cat, most hunters would believe at least a few of those were false trees. Dewey remember the time you told me about once when you & Tim were trailing a cat & Pepper treed on a salmon in a creek, the young dogs went on had the cat track. Remember when I called you for a referance on the Buddy dog I bought from Pete . You told me about Buddy dumping your dogs & catching the cat. You also told me about buddy out running your dogs on the first cat you hunted your dogs with him. Dewey things like that happen when hunting with dogs, none are perfect. Thing that I can/t figure, yes buddy has sure put it on some dogs & caught some tough cats & even at 9 has a permanent home with his present owner. But he has also been made look foolish by a # of cats. If he was able to do so well hunting with your dogs then why do your dogs never encounter cats they can/t catch? Good luck. Thanks Al Baldwin

[dwalton]

Al: I jumped three cats last year that I did not jump. I do run cats in training season in dry conditions that I do not tree. Bubby is no cat to me he has got ahead and he can catch a cat but very few of the cats he starts will he tree. I think he will mess up a good cat race, he is a good box dog on cat other than that he has little to offer. He is what I have seen that most people hunt, you can catch 10 to 20 cats a year and be happy because there is just no cats out there. Al you are in a area that you are comparing apples to oranges. You doubt what can be done which is good but you don't come and hunt to see what can be done. I asked Tom how long he runs a jumped cat, he hunts mostly on the coast and a lot close to you. His responds was 5 to 10 minutes on most jumps. Maybe just maybe there is something about bobcat hunting that the the people that know are not just seeing. Good hunting Dewey

[slowandeasy]

QUOTE: Slowandeasy: once you have what you want your papers can be as simple as index cards in a file box.



Newby, although your name leads us to believe you are new. you already appear to have enough savy to do very well with your hounds, maybe you are just wanting people to think your new . just one thing, you have been misimformed in your thinking that grade dogs are of lesser value than papered dogs. the value placed on talent is always the same. TALENT=$$$$$$$. and normally word of mouth travels like wild fire. only the jellous and chest beaters will put the mouth on others. but those with sage wisdom will always be aware that the papers don't have to have pretty colors that have made registrys rich. they can be kept on toilet paper as long as the guy keeping the records knows talent when he looks at it. take care!

[Tim Pittman]

Al,I owned Buddy as you called me also,I remember telling you the dog was hot and cold[good one day,then look like an ass for several]hence the reason I didn't own him any longer.I felt he was holding Suzie and my other young dogs when she was my second oldest dog[17 months old]compared to him at 5years old,the rest being younger than her.Yes he was very fast at times but not consistant,when I knew he should have been[a 14 and 17month females were going on and catching cats,he was looking foolish on or quiting,not locating,rigging,starting etc.]Again,I'm misunderstood on my Idea of a fast track dog--1 that makes the corners,consistant pressure,works the cold end as heads up as possible,and locates accurately 95% of the time or higher,this is my idea of wht I want.If a dog lacks in 1or2 of these departments it better be SPECIAL in the others to stay at my house,this being the reason Buddy left so soon.This in my mind should not make a statement of bragging,but should be viewed that he didn't make the grade to what I've kept.And am still allways looking to improve on these because I know from personal experience there are othrs who do it better and with consistancy.It's kinda like when my dogs fail,I never just chalk it up to''well that's cat hunting for ya'',instead it eats at me,becuse I think were have I screwed up or if OL' so and so were here could they have done better??This in my mind keeps me humble and open minded to always think/know there is something better to be had,and room for me to improve.

Dewey i don/t doubt you are a very good hunter & have very good dogs. I don/t question the # you gave for 2010. I do find it hard to believe that all the cats you run are easy to tree as you make it sound. Noticed you stated this past winter you were hunting where no one else hunted & were tired of the snow. Two things that would increase ones success. I do believe If one has 18 trees that you cannot find the cat, most hunters would believe at least a few of those were false trees. Dewey remember the time you told me about once when you & Tim were trailing a cat & Pepper treed on a salmon in a creek, the young dogs went on had the cat track. Remember when I called you for a referance on the Buddy dog I bought from Pete . You told me about Buddy dumping your dogs & catching the cat. You also told me about buddy out running your dogs on the first cat you hunted your dogs with him. Dewey things like that happen when hunting with dogs, none are perfect. Thing that I can/t figure, yes buddy has sure put it on some dogs & caught some tough cats & even at 9 has a permanent home with his present owner. But he has also been made look foolish by a # of cats. If he was able to do so well hunting with your dogs then why do your dogs never encounter cats they can/t catch? Good luck. Thanks Al Baldwin

[al baldwin]

Tim that is sure not what you told me when I called you about the buddy dog. I don/t understand why you say this now. I appreicated the information you gave me and never regretted buying buddy sight unseen. And after talking with you I was sure I wanted to buy buddy. Yes buddy does run hot & cold but he sure has a lot to offer that helps catch cats some times. Yes I have seen dogs put it on buddy, but he sure seems to return the favor at times. Thanks Al Baldwin

[Tim Pittman]

Al,I'll give you a call,when Pete sold you the dog in spring of 09,I told him I told you the good and bad,I believe Dewey probably told you more of the bad also.According to my journal on that dog,you guys really liked him and didn't see much of this until March 18 2010 when you called me and said "I see what you were talking about on Buddy being kinda on and off".But went on to say that you and Tom still liked him as he contributed well in your packs.And I have written down that you bought him on a trial,must have got this part messed up,but understood this from you and Pete.For any misunderstandings I apologize,I never regretted buying Buddy dog from Pete either,but when he called and wanted him back I didn't hesitate to send him back.Pete got him back hunted him for 2-3 months called and said he was a better dog than before he left,but still not what he wanted to keep and wanted to make sure I didn't think he tried pulling one over on me.I never thought this for a minute as the dog was what he was,and he'd been on somewhere between 45-60 cat with Dewey and I and just wasn't what I needed or expected out of a 5 year finished dog.Was mainly useing him to give you an idea of what the others are expected to do that eat our my feed and live at my house.To my knowledge and what was told to me that the only weakeness in that dog was his treeing,based on what I saw--if that would have been it,he'd still be here.

[Tim Pittman]

Back to the topic,What other strains or lines have you guys seen[paperd]with a propensity for bobcat?Someone said Arkie blues,where did these come from and how are they built,size,tempermant etc.
Newby--I'm trying a Lepoard cur now,from Russ Barney[mcduffie strain mostly].Almost 7 months old,nice acting pup.By the end of next winter should have a good idea what I'm really gonna have there.

[david]

Tim I hunted with the old Buster dog that your pup goes back to on both sides. After seeing him I always wanted to try some of that. I am glad you got one. I will be anxious to hear how the dog does for you.

There is an example of a dog that could have papers but probably doesn't because Russ will not put up with all the nonsense that has gone with it. Buster was the coldest nosed Leopard I ever saw to this day. He took a cold track head up though so he looked hot nosed until you put him with a dog you know was cold nosed. He could run away with it. I will not forget it.

I hope your pup has some of that head up cold trailing nose. The breed could use someone who will pay attention to that and protect it and develop it.

To me it is a shame that the dogs will probably not ever have their papers put on them. If they did, they could possibly help out the breed as a whole. Without the registration papers, it will be hard to find leopard folks in other parts and hunting other game who will want to breed to it.

[newby]

Glad to hear it Tim...I too hope that pup works for you. I delivered a Leopard pup down to to a guy in CA recently from a breeder up here in Columbia Falls, MT that looked and acted smart as a whip, made me curious. I also hear Randy Oller breeds some decent bobcat/fox dogs, I know he runs a lot of bear too, but think he has or has had good success on varmints with them too.

[CRA]

Tim,

The Arkie bred blueticks are tight built, dark backed, good feet, super loud bawl mouths, dirty cold nosed, good tree hounds. The one's I have cat hunted with were very determined to catch the cat. They were just good solid cold trailing hounds with the drive to catch. They were also hard to beat on the rig. They were cat savvy hounds.

Steve Perrymen is a great guy and owns the Arkie Bluetick Kennels. This picture is of John Tashudas Arkie and was probably taken in the 70's, this picture is very old.

[twist]

I would have to say certain strains of the Nance hounds have been known for their abilities to catch bobcat, over the years also. Andy

[CRA]

I would have to say certain strains of the Nance hounds have been known for their abilities to catch bobcat, over the years also. Andy

Andy,

You are exactly right!

I know that many years ago Nances Little Topper won a Cat Dog Championship hunt. I have no clue who, where, or how they conducted this competition bobcat hunt.

Does anyone know anything about how that hunt was put together? A championship cat hunt that's something you dont see everyday. It was promoted that Nances Little Topper won it several times.