The body drift.

[Unreal_tk]

Now Warner and South Texan was talking about "cheating dogs". South texan was explaining how a dog who knew the country was cheating by knowing where the cat was going and using roads to cheat while John was talking about a dog sensing which way a cat was heading and cutting it off before it got there. Now what this brings to my thought is when a track is jumped or super red hot. Some dogs start drifting the body scent of the cat instead of the brush or tracks of the cat. When this happens I think John is right some dogs, find that cat quicker because they drift the body scent rather than just trailing the cat.

Does anyone else think this theory is correct? I have seen where the dogs are no where close to the actually track in the snow, but somehow end up with a cat in the tree.

[twist]

The truely great snow bobcat dogs all should be able to drift on a track that has freshened up this is a trait that can be breed into a dog. This type of dog will flat leave the track straddlers behind. jmo Andy

[slowandeasy]

unreal, a good hound that can drift a track head high is an asset better than anything you could ever ask for. a cheater will screw ya more often than not. and sometimes goes unnoticed where critters are thick. as sometimes the hounds end up not even treeing the animal they started on. which for a fur hunter doesn't make any difference, untill game gets a little harder to come by. then when they can't put game on the wood they either get it figured out or just believe that the critters got incredibly smart from ol cheater. take care! Willy

[call-me-ish]

I have watched the dogs scream after Mr. Bob over a ridge in the Lower Sierras in Southern California, running at least twenty to thirty yards off the track line I had seen the cat make. Naturely it was the down wind side. That is the type of track power, and sense that I believe it takes for a hound to be consistant.

[bowtech36]

good stuff to learn.

[Unreal_tk]

Great responses, I have seen track drifting alot on the snow myself with my mutts. But what makes those extra special ones I think are the ones who use brains enough to realize they are doing this to predict the cats next move. Twist this one is aimed at you.

[dwalton]

It all comes down to what one means by saying a dog is drifting a track. If a dog is running the drift in the wind of the body scent or where the body scent has stuck onto bushes great. If a dog is cutting wide, over running a jumped cat more that 15 feet off a track that is a bad thing to me. If a dog has lost the scent[ cat do not leave scent in some conditions] and goes and finds it that is good. If a dog is running every where working real hard to find that cat, that is a big fault. Most cat dogs have the scent and don't charge around looking like they are doing good and will run right over the scent. It hard to tell the different in a dog and what it is doing. Bottom line if you are treeing bobcats with very few looses and short races the dogs are doing good. A good dog will not make many looses on a cat. They keep there mouth shut when they don't have it and honor the dogs that does open because they have found it. I don't like a dog to be off the track unless it has to. Unless it has to is the key to a top cat dog. Just my thoughts. Dewey

[Warner5]

I cannot ad how these dogs do what they do without sounding like a fool. What I will say is they run to catch and they break the rules when compared to a regular track style dog. John.

[slowandeasy]

i really think that alot or times people say words that others interpret differently dewy. when i say head high and drift i mean pulling the sent with out having to have nose on the ground, and making sort of a S pateren never getting more than 7 to 9 foot from actual center of the S that being the actual tracks of critter. and contrary to popular belief they can be very cold nosed and make a dog that has to put his nose on the ground and stand on its head making its owner think it is very cold nosed look foolish. when people see this type hound they will not forget it and will strive to own one like it. what you were discribing i would call a slashing (cheater) that will go any way it can to get the front end, and more often than not goes hand and hand with a loose mouth. and nothing will get dead quicker with me other than a fighter. pretty much a toss up around here. take care,Willy

after rereading yours dewey i do think were on the same page


winding: takes place on the box and other places where a track has not been figured out.

drifting: is all track style and man is it fun to watch and hear (leathal)

course its just the way i see it.

[Warner5]

I will tell a hunt story, you guy's can take what you want from it. J.C. and I were running a cat, we had a dog named bud, this dog never got behind. On this cat he was probably 100-150 yrds ahead of the other dogs most of the time he was ahead like that.

On this cat I got lucky and watched the tree. The dog was very close to the cat, the cat ran up the tree about 7 feet then ran right back down moving out. The dog didnt skip a beat he didnt even slow at the tree, but what he did was he took a slightly different path than the cat. I thought the dog messed up but before I could blink the cat ran right back up the same tree with bud right behind, the cat stayed tree'd this time. This all took place before the other dogs had time to catch up. If bud would have went in the brush where the cat did I think the race would have moved off. I should mention the race took place in a 8-12 year old logging unit the tree the cat chose was a larger hardwood left by the loggers. It was the only tree tall enough to make the cat feel safe. This dog pulled stuff off like this all the time.

The more I work with other dogs, the more I wish I could have just 1 more like bud dog. The fact I had this dog does not make me better than anyone else, I was just lucky to have owned him. All I ever did was hunt him and made plenty of mistakes doing that. Good topic TK-. John.

[Unreal_tk]

Yeah, I understand Willie about what you are saying. I have one dog who is very loose or babbling on the track but she made every tree happen last year for me. The only tracks I didn't catch, she wasn't on. (Good tracks that is) She is a drifter on a track but I haven't seen her do like we are talking about. However I have a pack dog which I run with one of my two good dogs, she will cheat if she smells that cat above her on the ridge, or up the drainage and flat out leave the dogs(usually the others will catch on to it). Silent as a pin drop when alone(or if she sneaks away on a cat), semi open with another dog. She has done this on a few occasions, and the only reason why I keep her. She will take a hot track by herself, but not a old one. When she does take a track by herself, she is dead slow(straddles the track), but jumped will out run my other two better dogs. Maybe you guys would cull a dogs like that, but until I have another good couple to replace em, they will stay. Keep in mind, I don't have alot of experience under my belt yet.

[South Texan]

Now Warner and South Texan was talking about "cheating dogs". South texan was explaining how a dog who knew the country was cheating by knowing where the cat was going and using roads to cheat while John was talking about a dog sensing which way a cat was heading and cutting it off before it got there. Now what this brings to my thought is when a track is jumped or super red hot. Some dogs start drifting the body scent of the cat instead of the brush or tracks of the cat. When this happens I think John is right some dogs, find that cat quicker because they drift the body scent rather than just trailing the cat.

Does anyone else think this theory is correct? I have seen where the dogs are no where close to the actually track in the snow, but somehow end up with a cat in the tree.

Unreal, you say "I have seen where the dogs are no where close to the actual track in the snow, but somehow end up with a cat in the tree."

On a jumped or red hot track as you mentioned, sure the dogs are going to run the body scent of the cat. Under these circumstances (jumped cat and good trailing conditions) there comes a time when the dogs have to pick their head up and go with the body scent of the cat and I mean running all out. If they don't it's going to be a long day.

If there is a cross wind blowing on the track, the dogs will be running the body scent of the cat on the down wind side of the actual track. The distance (the dogs are running to the side) is determined by how far the scent has drifted from the actual track since the cat went by.

I'm like call-me-ish, I have seen the dogs running heads up 10 to 30 yards to the downwind side of the actual track. First time I saw this 30 years ago, I thought the dogs had lost their minds. I saw the cat cross the road (running) 40 yards in front of the truck, I would guess he ( the cat) had about 100 yard lead on the dogs but they were screaming every breath and running all out. There was a stiff wind blowing down the road in front of me. When the dogs crossed the road I know they were at least 20 to 30 yards on the down wind side of the track (running the drifted scent of the cat). Now this wasn't just one dog, this was the pack that you could have covered with a blanket as they crossed the road and they went on to catch the cat. But...I have witness this a lot since then. If the wind is calm and scent not drifting the dogs will be running heads up right over the top of the actual track but still running the body scent, not heads down with their nose in the track.

Now remember, I'm talking about a cat that is jumped and running scared, giving off a lot of scent when I have witnessed this. Hope this helps to answer your question. Just what I have seen. Robbie

[dwalton]

I think for the most part we are all on the same page. I have no problem with a dog running the body scent funnel that is a good thing. I have no problem with a dog looking for a track when there are dead spots in the trail.It is what we mean by a drifting dog that bothers me at times. If a dog is running wild looking for a track that can wreck a race quick. What I realize is that houndmen have several ways of describing the same thing. A good cat dog makes it look easy where a lot of dogs just can't get the job done. Dewey

[Dads dogboy]

Mr. Dewey writes: “A good cat dog makes it look easy where a lot of dogs just can't get the job done. Dewey”

How True that is! Those Special Hounds always seem to know right where to find the Track at a loose, when other Good Hounds struggle.

I also agree with this quote from Dewey “I think for the most part we are all on the same page. I have no problem with a dog running the body scent funnel that is a good thing. I have no problem with a dog looking for a track when there are dead spots in the trail”.

Now we have all seen (in good Scenting conditions) the Hounds running the Tack Heads up, Screaming with every breath just down wind of where the Cat actually went. This Knee to Breast High Scenting conditions is what we would like to have all the time, but seldom do.

“It is what we mean by a drifting dog that bothers me at times. If a dog is running wild looking for a track that can wreck a race quick.” Now parts of this quote are where we differ, and it again is probably do to regional differences in terrain.

I am going to start that “Dictionary” thread in a minute so we can define regionally what we mean with terms like DRIFTING, BABBLING, SILENT MOUTH, WINDING, TIGHT MOUTHED, OPEN MOUTHED, ETC.

But for now this is the part of the above quote that gives us in the Southeast problems, “If a dog is running wild looking for a track that can wreck a race quick.”

True a Hound RUNNING WILD looking for the Track and not being Hound enough to hold said Track, and or having enough Mouth to call the Cavalry to it can and will hurt you in a Race.

But that Swinging Hound who knows its Trade, reaching out to find the Cat when it hits a Road, or comes out of a Pond, slough, creek etc…..and has the Bugle call to tell the Pack and the World that here is where the Cat has gone, will save you many a Cat Race! Most of these Hounds seem to know when a Cat quits trying to leave an area and “Breaks down”, and then the Swingers become Track Runners and hold close to the Track. Another reason that they are SPECIAL Hounds!

You do not need a Pack of these Hounds, just as the Football team does not need 11 Jerry Rice’s, however in Our country you darn sure had better have a Jerry or Randy Moss on your team!

Just what works in the Southeast!

[dwalton]

C. John Clay: We are on the same page as to what we want I think. To me a wild running dog is one that hits a road runs down it for a long way trying to get ahead of the dog that is not there no cat even went that way. A dog that looking at the GPS is way off where the others dogs worked the track through. A dog that one guy says wow look at that dog hustle looking for that track, I say look at that idiot the other dogs are working that track over the next ridge. I will keep one dog in there that works wide looking for that lose on a cold track but it seems to me if you have two or more of them soon they are in the next county and no has the track. On a jump track in heavy cover as you know a cat will squat down or cut left or right a dog or two running wide will over shoot that cat, the cat a lot of the times will go back down his back track and that is the hardest lose to pick up. A tight track dog will not make many of those loses. With the briars you have in those pine plantations that has to make for a tough cat race back there. Dewey