cameron hounds????

[nodge]

What is the history of a cameron hound???? Where did there breeding begin and who started it etc etc ......Are they a bluetick high breed or what?
Thanks John

[snowy river black and tan]

Dell Cameron has a book called (call of the hounds) I think. Ill check. Its all about him and his dogs. You can find it in full cry.

[Arkansas Frog]

go to Del Cameron.com

[Mike Leonard]

Del's original bunch of dogs was an actual strain known as the Sugar Creek Blueticks. These were a tall, rangey heavy headed dog from a strain that Harry O smith one of the original bluetick breed organizers worked up. Del bought the strain and hunted and bred it for some years. He was plaiged with canine bloat in these dogs. this condition known as stomach torsion is rather common in large breeds like the bloodhound and this strain seems to be suseptible to it. These were very impressive hounds however and had extreme characteristics. On my first visit to Del's home when he lived in Victor in about 1971 his kennel was full of these big dogs and they roared like a pen full of young bulls.I ordered a pup from Del out of Top Notch Eagle but the pups never made it.

Del sold out of this strain to Lyonel Charles of Missouri who I also knew and sold a few dogs to. Lyonel had hunted with Del some but never really kept this historic strain going. Thru mis- breeding manangement of the strain they have nearly slipped into oblivion today.

Del then goofed around a couple of years and even had a few plotts and walker dogs that he used to fill clients. He had a passion however for the blue dogs, and he was able to get a cross going that was very heavy in the breeding of Elbert Vaughn from Paragould, Arkansas. The blood of Vaughn's Blue Jack was the basis and the standard that he bred to. Crossing on dogs from Julian Sebastian famed bluetick bear hunter from Michigan, and also some Towaco River blood from the east coast that runs along the same Vaughn lines ,he started what he calls the Cameron hound. Yes they are bred by him and have been for some years now.

[DWD58]

Yes and did you notice before he made the switch , he always gave credit to the Sugar Creek background breeding, but after he made the switch, he kind of kept it quiet on exactly what lines he was using to make up the 'Cameron Hounds". Actually I thought he had taken some of the Sugar Creek and bred into a smaller line of Bluetick to get a smaller strain, but I take it from what you are saying that there is no Sugar Creek in his present day hounds? I read the book , and he seems to have started breeding heavy on the Camerons Little Blue about the time he made the switch, but he never goes into detail about little blues breeding. And you are right, the Sugar Creek strain is a very noble and proud line of Blueticks and the deserve a much better fate.

[Mike Leonard]

I had Del ship me two females out of Little Blue and Fly and in looking over the papers which I had only the three generation on these there was absolutley no sugar Creek or Top Notch which was a line of these hounds in the pedigree.I spent many years conversing with Al womack who many out there may have know as a quality breeder of large style old fashioned blueticks. All had done the leg work and the investigations into all the old strain lines.O O Grant, Ellison's Blue Tige, Early Smokey River, Lee Bros, Galloway,and Sugar Creek. He had investgated some of the last full Sugar Creeks to breed to, but found cull traits in them. Some very mean hounds in that line.

I had a freind in Utah that got one of Del's last Sugarcreek pups. This was a beautiful pup with long rolling ears, a big heavy head, and a roaring bawl mouth and excellent feet. this pup got up just short of a year and was very shy and nervous with strangers and family members he was not around a lot. His shyness then switched to aggression, and Scott tried to dicipline the pup he would turn on him and attack. By this time the pup already weighed 70 pounds plus and was a handfull. The pup got so bad and I really think there must have been somthing wrong with him that even his master could not take him feed without the dog charging him and attacking him.One day he broke the chain and got ahold of him by the leg, and he knock him loose with a garden rake ran in the house and grabbed his Ruger 44, and put and end to him. The dog was wacko, and even after being hit kept trying to get at him.

[cecil j.]

[quote="Mike Leonard"]I had Del ship me two females out of Little Blue and Fly and in looking over the papers which I had only the three generation on these there was absolutley no sugar Creek or Top Notch which was a line of these hounds in the pedigree.I spent many years conversing with Al womack who many out there may have know as a quality breeder of large style old fashioned blueticks. All had done the leg work and the investigations into all the old strain lines.O O Grant, Ellison's Blue Tige, Early Smokey River, Lee Bros, Galloway,and Sugar Creek. He had investgated some of the last full Sugar Creeks to breed to, but found cull traits in them. Some very mean hounds in that line.
Vaughns blue blue
(big blue)

Big Blue come too me from Dave Fletcher/Jerald McDaniels,and come directly out of Mr Vaughns kennell and crossens . The pup was 20 months ols and been coon hunted maybe 10 times befor I got him. He was a big hound and big boned and had a velvett short summer coat and was a soft coloreing blue dog not much but dappleing of ticks and his head and root of tail was dark . He was not ill, not timmid and was friendly. He had a corse bawll mouth and a chop on the tree for a change over mouth. He had deturmanition, and he just was allways doing right things and never a problem with offgame an trash neither. I never had too whop him nor scold him he just walk hunted and I unleashed him and off hed go and some were hed strike run and tree up.
I never till today realized the dog was aperfict handleing hound by other than ya couldnt call him of a bay-up game & hound fight/ everything else went great ! I was in my 16 th yr too 18 th yr of age and hunted Big Blue with my Smokey River Bluetick (ole Arkie). I cant remember which was Blues sire x dame and I wishted I could cause it was a fine offspring and natural want too hunt for ya hound on coon,bobcat,mtn.lion, bear too.

[thomas]

[quote]His shyness then switched to aggression, and Scott tried to dicipline the pup he would turn on him and attack. By this time the pup already weighed 70 pounds plus and was a handfull. The pup got so bad and I really think there must have been somthing wrong with him that even his master could not take him feed without the dog charging him and attacking him.One day he broke the chain and got ahold of him by the leg, and he knock him loose with a garden rake ran in the house and grabbed his Ruger 44, and put and end to him. The dog was wacko, and even after being hit kept trying to get at him.[/quote]

I have seen this trait also from same line.
I got the dogs late and I believe they were kicked at or slapped for babbling in there kennels.
Some shy pups will become mean for being abused.
I dont blame any dog for lashing out from being beaten.
I have tried to help those dogs get over there aggression but it usully ends up being directed to other hounds at the bowl, box or tree.
I read these posts about houndsmen beating there dogs for bad behavier.
Maybe they should be beat for when they misbehave.

[Majestic Tree Hound]

I think the Hound had a Extra large Abdominal Cavity which gave more Room for rotation of the Intestine..

Story By Del about the lines..

Here is a Link if you can't get the story large enough to read.
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.ph ... did=197003

[cecil j.]

I never owned a cameron dog and never huntedbehind oe, bu did of the one blue dog I mentioned in my above of note/ by Vaughn line. Big Blue was in my view aroud the most balanced prettyestcoated and well put otgether (90 lb) American Bluetick Coon Hound I ever seen. Had abiltys and charature andhunted good and was friendly. He had no quite in him and was beautifull coated and it was volure-velvett coat short hair and glossed and dapplens all over in it with a slite hazzy blue cast tinge and had tan around cheeks and on lower legs and blushush black head and mask around eves and ears and on root of tail . His build was awesome and he might couldnot run under a blanket behind my 57 lb Smokey River American Bluetick Hound (ole Arkie) ; but Big Blue took a pullen and got goen when the goen got goen and tuffer ! He was some times hushed on a race too just a barke here an there but he was honest mothed and barked-in place ! He didn`t stop an fall out an he kept up as very close as he could go/ which wasent that far behind on a jump race lion,bob cat or bear race and on river bottem hungle coon or tuley padd slues coon or rice water coon/ he was right ther gettig parts of the fron end of the race ! He may or may notof been a typical Vaughn bred offspring direct from Vaughns pins but he was natural and he was as I described ~ I hunted him and arkie night after night and for over 2 1/2 -3 yrs and never solo/ but they was sure enoughf meat ogs for me and had great couriage ! Both was friendly too man and other dogs . I had a Dr. Finch dog bought after a pheasent hunter shot ole Arkie thinken he was a cull pheasent dog/but my dad renigged the deal so Dr. Finch let me out of the deal for a 18 - 19 month old hound called Finches Drummer Boy (ever hear of that dog)? My adopted name back then was Jackie McGilvray and I belonged too American Bluetivk Breeders of America back in the later 50`s and lived on River Farms Co. 20,000 sq ac ranch (spanish land grant ranch) out of Knights Landing Ca. my adopted dad was a foreman at that ranch along the sacramento river .

jack

[liontracker]

This is a very interesting thread to me, as I have spent several years trying to come up with a full "Sugar Creek". The best I can come up with is a 3/4 SCr female and a 1/2 SCr male. If any one else knows of any others please let me know. I would like to resurect this strain, but it may be too late. Any and all help will be highly appreciated ... Thanks.

[Majestic Tree Hound]

Well This is Our next Shot at rebuilding some early stock .. The thory is to Slam Everything Back together as a Pre English / Bluetick Seperation of the early Forties,,

All the Old Blue lines go back to Al Womack and Suggar Creek Strains, Then were adding a small amout of Bloodhound "The Bloodhound Will Combine Missing Genetic Markers from the Sire and Dam.."
This is all on the Sires Side ..
The Sire has Trates of Early Bill Green and Goswick Hound.. Looks and Stature Mostly But Still Has pleanty of Game Drive and Overall Hunt Abilites.. Worthy of a Breeding Stud.

On the Dams Side is All English Coonhound with a Large Conformation
and She has good Abilities.

So Time Will Tell She will be bred in Late June. so 16 months from now should tell if it worked.. lol

Of Course This Would be In a Perfict World !! Genitics can Run Ramped but theirs allway that slight Chance ..

This Shows the Ped. of how the pups will be Constructed..
http://www.bawlingtreekennel.com/sale.html

[doug]

I had a couple of blues from Del in the late 80's and early 90's.Male was around 85 pounds and the female was about 65 pounds.Both dogs were aggressive around people.Neither was ever shy though.By aggressive I mean you couldn't walk right up to them and pet them if you were a stranger,that would growl at you,maybe bite if you didn't savvy what they were trying to tell you.And strangers didn't fool around the pickup if they were in there.They were alittle hard headed though and I had a hard time getting them to handle the way I liked.But they were some of my first hounds and I was used to working with border collies at the time. But they were great dogs,started early,cold nosed,more than enough sand,great tree dogs,and just about the loudest bawls I have ever been around.I wish I still had them both today.

[thomas]

Amen to Dels old blood lines raw boned, load mouthed, cold nosed and all business.

[DWD58]

Liontracker...I would say that is about as close of Sugar Creek as you are going to get...and consider yourself lucky to get that . They are a very noble and beautiful line of hounds, and you would be smart to try to continue that line if you can. They are too great of a line just to let it die out. Good luck with this endevor !