???? IS BIG BROTHER WATCHING ????

[SHADOWHUNTER]

OK HOUNDSMAN, IM GONNA EXERCISE MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH! QUESTION I HAVE IS BIG BROTHER WATCHING OUR EVERY MOVE? I'VE BEEN WANTING TO SHARE THIS FOR ABOUT 2 MONTHS. PLEASE DON'T PANIC, BUT I GOT WORD FROM A REPUTIBLE SOURCE THAT A ROOKIE NEW MEXICO GAME AND FISH OFFICER NAMED SHAWN CARRELL, AN OFFICER I HAD A RUN IN WITH 2 YEARS WHILE LION HUNTING HAS BEEN KEEPING TABS ON VEHICULAR TRAFFIC IN HIS DISTRICT. THIS PARTICULAR UNIT HAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO PRODUCE SOME OF THE BIGGEST LIONS, ELK AND MULE DEER IN THE SOUTHWEST. THIS FELLOW AND HIS TEAM HAVE STRATIGICALLY PLACED GAME CAMERAS TO KEEP TABS ON WHO COMES AND GOS. THIS UNIT DOES GET HIT HARD WITH POACHERS, BUT BECAUSE OF A FEW BAD APPLES CONTINUING TO SHOOT TROPHY MULIES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF SYSTEM THEY ARE USEING BUT THERE ARE SOME NICE SYSTEMS OUT THERE INCLUDING ONE WITH INSTANT PICTURE TELECOMMUNICTIONS VIA SATELLITE. NOW I AM GLAD TO HEAR THAT THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB, BUT IS THIS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE? THIS IS JUST INFORMATION FOR THE GENERAL HUNTING PUBLIC. SO I THINK ALL SHOULD BE PREPARED TO BE CHECKED REGULARLY BY NMDGF OFFICERS. IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO. I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO DETAILS ABOUT MY RUN IN, BUT LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, I WAS GUILTY IN THE OFFICERS EYES BEFORE I WAS EVEN QUESTIONED! 1.5 YEAR LATER AND OUT $3200.00 THE CASE WAS DISMISSED FOR LACK OF EVIDENCE! WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP! THESE OFFICERS WILL TRY TO PULL ALL KINDS OF INFO FROM YOU! SO KEEP IT LEGAL FELLOWS. SO WHAT ARE YOU'RE FEELINGS ON THIS SORT OF TOPIC?

[meagain]

Well there are a few topics in your question.
First off, I know someone who works support for Cal Fire who has found trail cameras on two different road system entry points at two different fires this year. Both locations had high tech trail cams. This doesn't surprise me at all.
The question is in the legality of using technology to enforce or convict or just harass? Since traffic cameras are legal almost everywhere I suppose trail cams are also.
I for one think it's not right! Not much fair chase in satellite surveillance.
If they can use trail cams linked to satellites, then I should be able to use GPS in California.

[mountain top]

let me say first that i am a houndsmen and hunter above all else, but im also a deputy sheriff in a very rural county in VA. If your not the ones breaking the law or poaching, whats the big deal? the cameras are set up on public hunting land and not in your yard, we all know that poaching hurts us all as legal hunters so why care what technology is used to catch the ones who give us a black eye? that being said, im fortunate to work with GW's that hunt and who are houndsmen. Believe me there is NOTHING worse than an anti with a badge.

[meagain]

Hahaha. Well now that I read my post again I can see where it might appear to be of a lawless nature.
That was not my intent at all. I live in California and have been stopped by officers just for having a dog box in my truck. I guess my frustration is due mostly to having hunted my whole life legally. Going to great lengths to be legal in a state that doesn't exactly favor the practice of hunting hounds ( my opinion). Then to spend the last 6+ months trying to do what I can to contribute to the fight against a rediculus bill to take what I love to do away and brand Houndsman as criminals.
As I stated above " Going to great lengths" you see it's not easy to prescribe to the letter of the law at all times in this state. With all the closed areas that make it difficult to exercise and train dogs. Not to mention the redicule by antis in my area ( urban California) and as you have mentioned the Anti's wearing badges and a legislature that has deemed us all criminals.
I said not easy but it is possible. I even lease private ranches to exercise my dogs in areas that are open ( at times) to pursuit and training Just one way to remain within the letter of the law.
I continue to do this mostly because of the excitement I see in my 7 year old sons eyes as we sitt on the ridge listening as the dogs run a bobcat or fox in the draws below us. Then the questions and conversation we engage in on our way to the tree. As I remember the excitement I felt while on hunts with my grandfather and my dad.

I realize I have probably rambled on and I apologize for hijacking this thread.
I also appreciate your service as a law enforcement officer.

[SHADOWHUNTER]

* MEAGAIN, THIS IS AN OPEN TOPIC, AND I DON'T THINK YOU RAMBLED OR HIJACKED MY THREAD. I WANT TO HEAR INPUT FROM ALL ANGLES. SORRY TO ALL, I DIDN'T DO A SPELL CHECK BEFORE POSTING. OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER IS WE WHO HAVE SMART PHONES ALSO HAVE A BUILT IN GPS BUILT IN FOR OUR EXACT LOCATION. DID YOU KNOW THAT EVERYTIME YOU LOSE CELL SIGNAL OR GET A PHONE CALL WITH YOUR GPS TURNED OFF, YOUR LONGITUDE AND LATITUDE COORDINATES ARE APPROXIMATELY DIGITALLY RECORDED ON YOUR OWN SIM CARD SO WITH THAT SAID NEXT TIME YOU TAKE A PHOTO WITH YOUR SMART PHONE, CHECK THE DETAILS OF YOUR PHOTO, ON MOST IT WILL SHOW AN APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF WHERE THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN WITH THE GPS OFF. MAYBE NOW IM RAMBLING? LOL.

I DON''T CONDEMN THE LAW FOR DOING THEIR JOB, IF ANYTHING I APPLAUDE THEM, BUT IF YOUR A LAW ABIDING HUNTER, WHERE DOES ONE DRAW THE "FINE LINE" OF HARASSMENT FROM NMDGF OR ANY OTHER FISH AND WILDLIFE OFFICER? KEEP THE INPUT COMING

[box rocker]

I hate gamecams I wish they were outlawed, it is an invasion of my privacy. If it is the fish and game or you. I could give a shit less, legal wise because I hunt dogs to much to do any dirty deeds.I do not like the fish cops or anyone else taking pics of me standing at the back of my truck scratchin my nuts, taking A piss thinkin about what canyon to rig next. Or any pics of the family. If game cams are legal any other form of hunting should be, get a deer tag rent a chopper and go find the biggest buck on the mountain. Maybe a little over the top or maybe not. You can pattern what time, what place, and what size animal you can expect to come through your little trap. I have used them with great success, but does it make you a better hunter or a lazyer hunter.

[mountain top]

I hate gamecams I wish they were outlawed, it is an invasion of my privacy. If it is the fish and game or you. I could give a shit less, legal wise because I hunt dogs to much to do any dirty deeds.I do not like the fish cops or anyone else taking pics of me standing at the back of my truck scratchin my nuts, taking A piss thinkin about what canyon to rig next. Or any pics of the family. If game cams are legal any other form of hunting should be, get a deer tag rent a chopper and go find the biggest buck on the mountain. Maybe a little over the top or maybe not. You can pattern what time, what place, and what size animal you can expect to come through your little trap. I have used them with great success, but does it make you a better hunter or a lazyer hunter.

I understand where you're coming from, but to some gps collars(I use them, and love em)could seem the same way, giving us an unfair advantage.
and Box rocker, I didn't mean you were an outlaw, I hope I didn't sound that way. I forgot you were in Cali, ya'll got tree huggers galore wearing uniforms out there and I really feel for ya. The only time we pull over a truck with a dog box here is to listen to the chase

[Shorty]

I'm with mountain top... If your legal them it shouldn't be a big deal. I'm all for catching any and all poachers. I don't care the manner it's done, just catch them and hang them up. I think they are bad for the game and bad for the hunting community.

I also don't think the wardens should harrass you. I was harrassed while living in California and am glad I don't live there anymore. I never got to court or even ticketed. My lawer calling the supervisor seemed to settle this guy down. In Texas we don't have to worry about the
harassment but they are very hard on poachers. That's the way it should be too!

You have the same constitutional right to video the warden as he does to video you when your pulled over. Turn on a camera and let him know it's rolling. If everything is on the up and up he will have no problems with this. Be respectful to him as he should be to you. Don't stick the camera in his face but put it in a place where both party's can be seen and heard. This should take care of any "harassment" issues from both sides.

[box rocker]

Gps collars save lives. Game cams only save time and effort. Here in New Mexico we still have a pretty firm grip on our rights and I would not like to see any takin away. There has always been a fine line between '' The Land of Enchantment'' and the ''Land of Entrapment''.
If I lived in California I'd have to take a long walk off a short pier. They have to deal with way to many P.O.S.

[Lookin' Up!]

One of the best ways to prevent any problems with the Game and Fish, is to keep a recorder in your truck and anytime one talks to you let him know you are recording the conversation. Also keep in mind that if they stop you they think that you are doing something wrong or why would they of pulled you over. Remember if they pull you over they are fishing for something and trying to get you to slip up. Dont tell them anything! You dont have to! Answer all of their questions with a yes or no DO NOT ELABORATE it will be used against you. This is a few of the things that I do to safe guard myself, in 15 years of being a guide I have never had a single violation, but twice that tape recorder has had 2 citations dropped by a game warden that just had it out for me all the way back from high school, he was let go by the department for harassing a select few and I am still hunting. It is always just better to be safe than sorry. Also just keep in mind you dont know what the last guy he stopped told him about that guy up the road with all of those dogs. you all know what I mean.

[SHADOWHUNTER]

*LOOKIN UP, IM WITH YOU, I WASN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG OTHER THAN BEING AT RIGHT PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME. MY LAWYER ALSO ENCOURAGED ME TO ALWAYS HAVE A RECORDER AND TO NOT EVEN TELL THEM THEY WERE BEING RECORDED, JUST INCASE THEY WERE TO SLIP UP. REMEMBER YOUR VEHICLE IS AN EXTENSION OF YOUR HOME, SO IF THEY WANT TO SEARCH IT THEY WILL NEED A SEARCH WARRANT. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I WAS EVER QUESTIONED, I'VE BEEN CHECKED PLENTY OF TIMES FOR PROPER LICENSING...THIS ROOKIE OFFICER HAD JUST MADE OFFICER OF THE MONTH IN OCTOBER 2010, AND I WAS STOPPED IN NOVEMBER 6TH, 2010. I THINK THIS ROOKIE WAS STILL RIDING HIS HIGH HORSE AND THOUGHT HE HAD HIT THE JACKPOT. WRONG! THE NIGHT BEFORE SHOTS WERE HEARD AND SOMEONE IN A BLUE PICKUP WAS SEEN LEAVING AN AREA WHERE 2 180" CLASS BUCKS WERE SHOT, THE BIGGER WAS ONE TAKEN AND THE OTHER LEFT TO ROT! WELL MY PICKUP IS BLUE, GO FIGURE! SO IN THE END THIS OFFICER DID ADMIT HE WAS WRONG, BUT SAID HE WAS JUST DOING HIS JOB. I STILL DON'T BUY IT, I STILL THINK IT WAS BULL$**T............

[JCK]

Of course big brother is watching, and not just in the woods. One man said here "there is nothing worse than an anti with a badge." When I consider what measures should be used by the authorities, I consider first how the law or practice could be used by an anti. It would be nice if all GWs were friends of the hunter. To be realistic there are less hunter friendly people in law enforcement each year, not from some data but personal experience. Having said that, I would tie their hands as much as possible if I could. I don't like the idea of GWs using cameras to spy on citizens in the name of catching poachers any more than I want my phone tapped in the name of catching terrorists. Just my opinion, I would be more successful in my pursuit of happiness and game without big brother "saving" me. I can look out for myself.

[mountain top]

*LOOKIN UP, IM WITH YOU, I WASN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG OTHER THAN BEING AT RIGHT PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME. MY LAWYER ALSO ENCOURAGED ME TO ALWAYS HAVE A RECORDER AND TO NOT EVEN TELL THEM THEY WERE BEING RECORDED, JUST INCASE THEY WERE TO SLIP UP. REMEMBER YOUR VEHICLE IS AN EXTENSION OF YOUR HOME, SO IF THEY WANT TO SEARCH IT THEY WILL NEED A SEARCH WARRANT. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I WAS EVER QUESTIONED, I'VE BEEN CHECKED PLENTY OF TIMES FOR PROPER LICENSING...THIS ROOKIE OFFICER HAD JUST MADE OFFICER OF THE MONTH IN OCTOBER 2010, AND I WAS STOPPED IN NOVEMBER 6TH, 2010. I THINK THIS ROOKIE WAS STILL RIDING HIS HIGH HORSE AND THOUGHT HE HAD HIT THE JACKPOT. WRONG! THE NIGHT BEFORE SHOTS WERE HEARD AND SOMEONE IN A BLUE PICKUP WAS SEEN LEAVING AN AREA WHERE 2 180" CLASS BUCKS WERE SHOT, THE BIGGER WAS ONE TAKEN AND THE OTHER LEFT TO ROT! WELL MY PICKUP IS BLUE, GO FIGURE! SO IN THE END THIS OFFICER DID ADMIT HE WAS WRONG, BUT SAID HE WAS JUST DOING HIS JOB. I STILL DON'T BUY IT, I STILL THINK IT WAS BULL$**T............

I can't stand one of my guys that's cocky and full of himself. But if a blue truck was seen leaving area after deer were shot, what would you rather him do? Stop red trucks and see if it was them? I still say that most people that bitch about the law doing their job usually have something to hide, just saying.

[mulehound]

You cannot place a GPS tracker on a vehicle without a warrant from a court that was clearly spelled out by the supreme court. So no one is getting tracked without good reason. It is a great tool and was just used on a outfitter in western Colorado with great success. You can google the case. I saw just some of the violations turns your stomach. As far as searching your vehicle, yes a warrant is best but if an officer has probable cause they can search your truck, reasonable suspicion does not cut it.
I have no problem with a warden doing his job, he just needs to keep his conduct within the law and be professional about.
Darrel

[JCK]

Speaking of catching poachers, what will that make me next year? Here in California they're taking my right to run bear and bobcat with dogs, so when the same p.o.s. law enforcement runs into me running "coyotes" or something that knows he checked my bear tags in previous years and suspects I'm running bear he may have to set up a camera? Yes I said p.o.s. If you are in law enforcement and enforcing b.s. laws you are the arm of tyrants. You should quit. Not trying to tick off anyone, but I'm no spring chicken. Been around long enough to see where we are at in the fight. Hunting, as important as it is to us all, is the least of it. Time to pick a side, not fool yourself into thinking there's grey areas. Its black and white, right and wrong, free and slave. Time to think ahead..."how could this be used against good people if it was in the hands of bad one?"