UDWR LION STUDY 2013 YOUR OPINION???

[black eye]

uhabears wrote:

[question is if the management plan is followed and we reduce tags by 20% do you realy think it will save one lion /quote]

More than likely it wont save many cats at all BUT it would be a step in the right direction. The management plans were never followed and that is what started all the harvest objective, emergency openings and overharvest.

I am for any reductions of permits no matter the numbers!





Houndnem wrote:

so far in just a short period of time I see more young cats, more females, and less days cutting per track

Hound,
I see the same and I wonder if its because the economy is in the dumps not as many dudes or houndsmen getting smarter. The response is worth protecting from udwr and poor management practices.

That leads to why I started this post.

DO YOU ALL THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO SHOW THE udwr WHAT WE ARE SEEING?
Most areas are still bad but if we show them a little rebound we screw ourselves.

We have told them for years why do we have to show them are we LIARS?

[final step]

So if its guides and outfitters doing all the damage to your population to make a quick and easy buck why not go a different direction with your fight and go to your guide and outfitters board and get better restrictions on guiding and outfitting so that not every Tom dick and Harry can get a quick fist full of dollars.

[black eye]

Final,
Good idea,but zero enforcement and everyone scabs off others use permits.

[Neff]

Well most guys are out doing what is right and not shooting females. However the guides on the other hand are the ones killing the hell out of all the females. I know here where I live the guides have moved in with there California and Texas people and are killing everything they tree. Put the blame where it belongs on the guides and outfitters of central Utah. I personally know who has been killing the females. So when there are no cats next year send me a PM and I will give you the names of the guides I know are responsible for the female killing.

[Oldmanindeepsnow]

Does anyone know if it is public knowledge on what the guides kill. Proving it is another matter.

[Bplott]

To my knowledge all lions checked in just go under the tag holders name..... it would be nice if the outfitters are recorded also...definately something to look into

[bears@uha]

altho everything has its pros and cons a big group of houndsman from sanpete county volenteered for the study on the southwest manti I think were headed in the right direction hopefully we can catch more bees with honey than the salt we been using

[black eye]

Congrats on the closing of the sw Manti.

Lonnie Steinkie did an awesome job of coordinating tons of emails to get the ball rolling and most important following thru.

Equally as important as the 12 houndsmen showing up to the meeting was the hundred or so emails that lit up the wildlife boards emails.

That is a poweful tool. I hope we all remember its power.

Now on to the balance of the manti units. CLOSE THEM!!!!!


bearsuha wrote,
concerning the study.

I think were headed in the right direction

We will find out one way or the other hero or goat?
Depends on the mood of the wildlife board that day.Today was in your favor, next time our buddies @ the $fw may show and use the study numbers against you. I dont like the gamble.

I just dont like that houndsmen cant be taken for their word.
Not a good way to build a relationship.

JMHO!!

[BigGameHunter]

I can understand the concerns but those of us willing to participate in the study have said and continue to say that the lion numbers are in the dumps here. It's time to put our money where our mouths are so to speak. Rather that the division thinking that houndsmen are a bunch of complaining liars, we are willing to provide them the data to backup what we say is the case. I believe it gives us credibility. We have been saying it for several years and now they are allowing us to PROVE it. Will it backfire with the numbers? No. Why? because I hunt these areas as hard as anyone down here and guess what? The lion numbers really are in the dumps.

I agree that houndmen SHOULD be able to be taken at their word but I also understand why we are not all the time. We have an agenda, deer hunters have an agenda so both us and them have good reason to embelish our stories. Why does the division usually side with deer and elk numbers? Simple math. The fact of the matter is that we are a minority.

I choose to look at the positive side of this. We are gaining credability in part due to the organiation of the hound club. The fact that the division is even attempting this study is an indication of that. and i'm not saying that the hound club instigated this study, what I am saying is that they layed much of the groundwork to allow houndsmen to even be taken seriously.

and yes this is JMHO as well.....

[cougar2]

I really don't have much faith in any government studies, they can make it look the way they want (just my opinion) but I think if we want to regulate lion numbers, it's up to us as hunters (the ones doing the harvesting) to closely keep track of the population (females and toms) as possible, we are the ones out there looking more than anyone else, but I think it's hard to get everyone on the same page, so I would say try to get the word out to as many hunters as possible, I personally know of some outfitters who are concerned and trying to make a difference, and they are out there trying to make a living, having a healthy lion population is there livelihood, but some don't look that far ahead, so maybe try to talk some sense into the ones you feel need it, not just the outfitters but all houndsmen, we are all in it together, just my thoughts, good luck and good hunting.