Garmin & Tri-Tronics

[al baldwin]

No arguments wanted! Seems to be a lot of talk about the use & advantage of both. Just my thoughts, the Garmin could lead to hunters breeding for less & less trail mouth in hounds Sure it can catch game quicker, by surprising the critter, but sure takes away from what true hound hunters of the old days enjoyed. Lots of talk about using the tri- to stop dogs from overrunning track, barking off & etc. That is sure each hunters choice, just hope all who are doing this is certain that can read the hound voices and are sure of themselves. Will using the tri to solve these dislikes in hounds stop those traits from showing up in the pups produced by those hounds? Please remember hope to hear others thoughts on this, not start a war. Sometimes, reading advise on this forum I wonder how did the old style hunters ever catch bobcats without the tri? Respectful Al

[twist]

Al,the tri troncs is a great tool in the right hands over running and barking off track can be sometimes corrected with it but the houndsmen needs to be in close with the hound and see what he is correting first hand. The garmin is also a great tool for the hunter I personally own it for two purposes shortin my walk to the tree lol and most important locate the hound. Andy

[LarryBeggs]

Al you are completly right. I would love to have a Garmin and Tritronics on every dog I have. But I know a lot of people misuse both. I know guys sometimes acuse there dogs of backtracking when all that happend was the dog either turned the track around and took it the right way or the cat doubled back. Sometimes watching litttle lines on a computer screen can mislead us when rolling the window down and listening to and knowing our dogs will tell us alot more.I think both are great tools in the right hands but kind of like a computer or a calculater if you dont practice the real thing pretty quick you forget how to do the math.

[Warner5]

Hello Al, you know the type of dog I like. The 1st cat dog I trained opened much like the dogs I have now. 2 christmas's ago my wife bought me the best dog hunting present I've ever got and will probably ever get, a garmin 320 & tri-tronics exp. I made collars so the garmin and shocker fit on the same collar. Then I numbered the collars from 1 to 6, meaning #1 garmin collar was mated to #1 shocker. My dogs always wear the same collar, that way I dont get confused and beep or zap the wrong dog. My garmin screen also reads 1 through 6.

This Garmin system has made it possible for me to handle more dogs at once if I choose, and keep my sanity. Knowing where the dogs are has let me relax and enjoy myself more. I find myself letting the dogs work an older track alot longer. Before, I would get impatient and call them out, at times to soon.

In my eye's the tri-tronics isnt a breaking tool anymore, Its a training tool. A dog on a bad track will get shocked, but a beep is used to make a dog think. If on a tough lose my sam dog is trying to locate, but I can clearly see sonny taking the track out of there I beep sam. He shuts up, wondering why he's getting beeped? Hearing sonny, sam realise's his error and gets back into the race. The best thing is the beep only affected sam dog. Before, I would of had to yell at sam risking a train wreck. I rarely beep my dogs on track anymore because they have figured out what I want from them, my dogs will not take shocking on track. They will shut down on me.

I dont mind a dog that barks, if the barks get us closer to catching the cat. But a dog that barks just to bark can take away from catching the cat, so I beep them. I choose to hunt dogs that make a cat race sound right to me. Right or wrong I pay the feed bill. John.

[dwalton]

Well said John. The Garmin and shock collars are great training tools. In the right hands one can fine tune a dog . In the wrong hands you can set a dog back. In the hands of a person that understands what is going on he will see who to breed and who not to breed. In the hands of a person that does not see what is going, he will breed as he always has. Those that want top dogs their job has become easier. The rest it won't matter, they will just keep doing what they have been doing not knowing the difference. Dewey

[al baldwin]

Thanks for that excellent post John. As you know I have hunted with you and seen how you use the garmin & tri. and it works very well for you. I am very pleased you explained it well hope others read your post & realize how important to use the tri only when one is sure what the dogs are doing. To my knowledge no one has ever explained how important it is to not over use the tri. I am pleased I help talk you into getting tracking & e-collars. I still believe the garmins will lead to hounds being breed with less and less track mouth but as I stated in my post that is certainly a choice of the hunters who feed them. AL My bad after reviewing for got to mention in my first post track mouth choice of hunters who feed them.

[Warner5]

Al, if you think back I didnt have much good to say about trackers or shockers. Now I'm telling everyone how to use them. You urged me to put a shocker on every dog I owned. The garmin just helped me make better decisions when using the shocker. More dogs have been ruined with shocking collars than anything I would suspect.

This last buck season my little female took 2 buck deer, the second race involved every dog I had. Seeing all my hard work running deer pissed me off, so I burned them, there was no safe zone. That stopped my deer running problems but started other problems, It took a good 6 weeks for the dogs to really click and run as a pack again. During that time a simple beep would shut the dogs down. I let my anger run the shocker and almost broke my dogs. Have a good day. John.

[Unreal_tk]

When puts are young, 12 wks or so is when I start breaking the ecollar to them. Using the beeper feature anytime I hollar for them to come to me. Use it to re enforece commands such as sit, or lie down as they age up. Once I begin hunting them I use it for two things, breaking and recall with the beeper. Occasionally ill use it to re enforce stuff at the house still but not much. If I suspect the dogs are on a good track, I will not shock them ever(however I will beep them off of it if the situation needs it)

I like to think my dogs have a very good handle because of this.

As far as garmin is concerned, I wouldn't hunt without one. Definitely helps make good dogs faster and easier.

[twist]

My personal belief on barking off trac and over running should only be corrected with e collar when the handler is in first hand and viewing the hounds doing this first hand otherwise its just a guess and could do ore harm than good again just my opinion. Andy

[al baldwin]

My personal belief on barking off trac and over running should only be corrected with e collar when the handler is in first hand and viewing the hounds doing this first hand otherwise its just a guess and could do ore harm than good again just my opinion. Andy

Andy I share this opinion with you & that was the reason I posted. I have never been able to be certain when listening to ten hounds run a track if one is barking a short ways off track. If there are handlers who are that gifted , I say great, good for them. However I don/t believe most hunters are that gifted. Also don/t believe breeding dogs that are trained to stay treed, not bark off, over run a track &etc using the tri are going to reproduce pups that have these traits bred out of them. My guess is you will still need that tri on the next generation. But, to each his own and if you like it , hunt it. Respectful Al

[Warner5]

I think I should mention, that beeping my dogs on track only works if my dogs are in a positive setting, If I'm on edge all day and being grouly with the dogs. I probably wont get the results I want.

What I'm getting at is, I cant yell, whip, shock and beep my dogs 1 day. Then beep them on track the next day, and expect positive results from it. Not with my dogs. They will get confused and shut down. I agree with Al and Andy about how risky on-track corrections can be. But, I also know if corrections are done/timed right. It works. Good nite. John.

[Dads dogboy]

John,

I have made this statement several times before in Posts......most times somewhat factiously, but not this time.

This time I make it with all sincerity, "You can tell how SMART an man is by how much he thinks like you do"!

You sir are a very smart and astute person. I look forward to meeting you and your Hounds even more.

The Shocking/Training mode on the Tri-tronics, ALPHA, or the Sport Dog should NEVER be used when a person is Angry....also do not DISCIPLINE your Child until you are in control of your emotions!(I have found that this is also an excellent protocol to follow with Mules and Wives)

In fact from what I have seen of the very BEST Houndsmen, that I have been fortunate to have been around, is that most TRUELY do treat their Hounds as Family. This includes ACCURATELY listening to and PERCEPTIVELY observing their Hounds and Children as to their INDIVIDUAL needs.

Then aiding or correcting each, depending on the circumstances!

[slowandeasy]

Keep in mind guys. I am guilty of preaching about seeing the front end of the race for ever. I'll try and make this short but sweet. All of us had better be darn sure that when you believe a dog is over running with mouth. That you shock or tone him at the perfect time. Which means you had better be there when the loss takes place. And absolutely see the hound running its mouth. The instant other dogs. Take the track and move on. Otherwise you are shocking that dog for harking in to the other dogs. Sitting in the truck and looking at the Garmin will lead you to what your skills as a houndsmen are already telling you. But to get the perfect timing to accomplish this feat. You will have to do it the old-fashioned way and be good enough to see the problem with your own two peepers. To get the instant timing that's needed. To rectify this problem if it is going to be able to be accomplished. I personally believe it has to go back to brains if it's going to be able to be accomplished. Both handler and hound.

Take care, Willie

[Al Vallejo]

That is sure each hunters choice, just hope all who are doing this is certain that can read the hound voices and are sure of themselves.

Al,

You've hit the nail on the head, need more houndsmen training than hound.

I hunted with some great old timers back in the 70's and they had hound sense long before getting the new tools.
On the other hand, they used the tri tronics and tracking systems to improve their ability to train and correct, not to short cut the experience needed to catch bear or lion.

Bottom line,
you need hounds that have a good voice, good nose and tree hard combined with a handler that understands what is going on with his dogs before he ever flips the switch to whatever.

Breed and train your hounds to hunt, use the electronics to help, not to depend on.

[Warner5]

C. John, I appreciate the kind words. But, I have just been lucky when it comes to hounds. I inhereted a great line of dogs when I was just a kid, and I have always had great houndsmen to look up to over the years. And still do.

I also look forward to meeting the Clay's, and am very much looking forward to showing my hounds. Thank you. John.