Just a question

[Hunter12]

This might sound weird but have any of you guys put bobcat scent on a puppy's toy? It seems like the dog would associate the scent with something it enjoys and something that is fun. It also would ingrain that scent into its brain at a young age as something to try to search for when it crosses the dogs nose. If you guys have done this have you noticed it helping at all when training begins or when you take them in the woods. If you have or haven't done it do you see a reason it would hurt the pup in the future or any bad habits it would create?

[twist]

This is my opinonon training scents smell no more like the animal than my farts do. You arebetter off smearing jelly on their toy. Scent drag are ok for the simple reason to get your pup to learn to trail. Andy

[mark]

My opinion is if you want to hunt toys with scent smeared on em thats the way to go. But if you want to hunt real game with em put all your focus on training them to handle and let them be puppies till they are old enough to introduce them to your game of choice. Trailing ability is a bred in trait they either have it or they dont. I agree with Andy on the scent, i dont think it smells anything like the real animal.

[twist]

Mark, put it very well!

[cobalt]

I personally don't think it could hurt a pup in any way.
I also believe that some scent companies produce scent that replicates real scent accurately enough. Older dogs may know the difference, but young dogs can benefit from the use of bottled scent. It would be no different than putting a towel in with a caged bobcat, then playing with it with your pups.
Many a good, broke, bear dog will strike bottled bear scent at a field trial.
Try running a bear drag or bobcat drag with bottled deer scent at a field trial and see what happens.
Many people use breaking scents to deter their dogs from running deer or other trash with great success.
There is no substitute for real, live game, but many a dog has been geared to run real, live target animals using bottled scent. It can also aid in the making of a rig dog.
twist, as for your farts, don't sell yourself short. You could probably use it to break dogs from running assholes.

[twist]

Cobalt, never thought of that idea should bottle it and call it BREAKING wind scent.lol

[cobalt]

Perfect!

[slowandeasy]

This has been a very interesting topic to say the least!! Before I put my two cents in, I will have to let you know that I just about pissed my pants reading it. But in all seriousness. Anyone contemplating buying sents. Should just save the money and use it for gas. As in reality, you'll have the same amount of success teaching them the trail hot dogs as pups. But if you have money to burn and it makes you feel better. Have at it, but I think everybody that posted above me pretty much have gave you a pretty good answer.

Take care, Willie

[al baldwin]

Don/t have a clue, if that would help your pup. Once while watching a field trial the person in charge told me you could train hounds to run gasoline. However, few years ago my nephew ordered some bobcat training scent from Grawe. He laid a drag here at my place, turned my bobcat hounds loose, walked them down to the drag area, the hounds ran that and treed & by all indications they thought there was a bobcat in the tree. That's my experience with scents. Al

[Unreal_tk]

My dogs will run grawes but piss scents they wont look twice at... I like using mike leonards method for the dog to learn independence ... I use a rabbit when pups are 3 months old or so for sight chasing and puzzle learning.

When using grawes do not put it on tree any if possible, my dogs I think learned to chew the tree because of this. They love to eat it...

[CRA]

I see there is a thread on cat hunters being shady tricksters. I know that thread is made in fun with a lot of horsing around among friends, but I’m here to tell ya that in the animal scent and lure world there are some true shady tricksters! The hound world has its share also.

Animal trail scent is made up from the natural scent glands from the animal that they are suppose to represent. Now remember it takes a lot of glands just to produce a pint of pure animal glands. Yet some of these trail scent makers seem to have an almost endless supply of the stuff. Here is a question to ask yourself before making your purchase. Where on earth are they harvesting so many Mountain Lions or Bears that a scent dealer can advertise they sell 100% pure Mountain Lion and Bear gland trail scent? Where would a dealer come across such a source? Truth is they can’t. Of course their ads say, “Pure” and “Limited Supply” to give you the impression that it’s something special and hard to come by. Yet they never seem to be out of stock???? Do I have you thinking yet?

What you are more than likely purchasing “in my opinion” is animal fats, organs, droppings, and stale urine from either Mountain Lion owners (which is only legal in a few states) or Bobcat and Bear urine from the same type of place. A lot of those (Shady Tricksters) are selling you Domestic Cat Urine along with litter box dropping mixed in with a few glands and other fillers. The urine is normally cut with water, glycol, or glycerin to create a tincture to stretch the urine further and make it freeze proof and give it some body and consistency.

Here is one example; I had a buddy that trapped years ago buy some bobcat urine from a “Big Named” lure and scent maker. Well the old wise tail amongst trappers is the darker the urine, the better it is. He had this urine that was almost black in color. I seen the bottle was about half empty but the top of the bottle was still almost black. I got to looking at the bottle of urine and told him look here at your (so called all meat fed pure urine) it was colored with food coloring! The dealer knew dark urine sold better so he made it dark alright. Now who’s the Shady Trickster? I open up every cat I harvest and if the cat has any urine left in its bladder it’s always about the color of weak type beer not dark or black.

Another dealer is advertising he still has true authentic Tonquin available and or course it's “for sale”! This is complete BS. Tonquin hasn’t been available in the US for many, many years. There is a lot of synthetic stuff out there but the real deal is very, very limited. Maybe a handful of guys still have a small jar of the real true Tonquin, but would probably never put a price on it. They use it as an example of the true smell of Tonquin for people that are trying to recreate their own synthetic stuff (copy cat) by mixing essential oils together. There is big money in the tonquin smell because the whitetail deer hunters buy it up for their buck lures and trappers use it in some predator lures. The reason I even mentioned the Tonquin is because this same dealer is selling hoards of animal trailing scents. If he isn’t being honest about having true tonquin, do you believe he is being honest about what is in his trail scents?

I guess my point im trying to make is there is true (Shady Tricksters) in everything and it’s up to the buyer to do their research or get a pricey education in most cases. It’s sad that “honesty” is becoming so rare anymore. Remember advertising ads can be very crafty. I call it diarrhea of the mouth, because some of those ads those Shady Tricksters produce can just continually pour out the bull$h@t. If you want to buy something, I will sell you some ocean front property right here in Arkansas!

This thread is not intended to point fingers or put anyone’s product down, but to just shed some light on the subject and maybe get people to think a little before buying or attempting to train a dog on some manmade concoction produced in some old lure shed. I’m sure some trail scent makers produce a product that may resemble their target species, but there is no substitute for the real deal.

[slowandeasy]

Good to see ya come out of hiding!!!!

Take care, Willie

[mark]

I wear a lite glove made of a nylon and cotton blend when handling or packing a cat out. When they get wet which is pretty much all the time they get throwed up under the heater vent on the floor board to dry. When i get in the pickup the next morning the smell of cat about knocks me over,i get use to it pretty fast because although it stinks its not putrid to me. I do have a bottle of grawes bobcat training scent but i dont think if i dabbed some of that on those gloves and put em under the heater i would even be able to breathe in the cab. It smells nothing like what a real cat smells like to me and i believe my dogs agree because i tried riggn a little of it on a stick throwed out along the side of the road. They will however rig a real bobcat,or at least bark in the right spot to get down and find one pretty regularly.

[outlaw13]

I had a couple young pups a few years back kenneled together and it seemed like they would get bored and bark while i was at work. With them being so young i didn't want to put a bark collar on them so i got them some toys. One was a tug of war rope. They didn't pay much attention to the toys so i put some grawes scent on the rope kinda thinking along the lines of it couldn't hurt. I don't know if it helped them as an adult as i don't have either dog now but they did play with that rope a lot more with the scent on it. So it kinda solved my boredom issue.

[al baldwin]

Greetings Mark, hear you on the gloves. Packed big stinky tom out and my rain gear stinks forever. As stated only tried the grawe training scent once. I said they ran the drag, but, it was more like they trailed it. I did observe them and they trailed into the tree where nephew hung the scented rag checked around and settled in on the tree. Had I been in the woods, would have checked the tree and corrected the hounds for false tree. Can say in my experience, grawe made some very effective lures for trapping coyote& beaver. When I was still working for the Parks Dept. needed some beaver taken for the park. Contacted game commission got permit to remove. Government hunter set the snares & I took care of them. Time passed & we were not catching beaver I called grawe. H e suggested his CHAINSAW LURE. I ordered a bottle, paid for it out of my own pocket. Scented the same snare sets with CHAINSAW, using less than the directions call for ( trapped a little myself). Caught two beaver the first night and in a short time we had the problem solved. I gave that scent to the government hunter he told me it worked well for him everywhere. Realize I have just written an ad for Grawe, but, believe me I don/t own stock in his business. However have used both his gland & meat based lure for coyote and had good results with them. He also made a coon lure called BIG STINKY that made bears dig a huge hole when used in a dirt hole set. I am not guaranteeing others the same results. Just my experience. Al