sorry it had to be done

[T.Hunt]

JC- I'll shed some light, trueblue has more integrity than anybody I've hunted around and as for his dogs, they are nothing you want to bet against in the bear woods.

x2

[007pennpal]

I don't think its a matter of fast or slow or blue or tootie fruity. I think its a matter of smart. Same thing with the human. I've seen some old blue skin taggers beat out a fast pack of corner missing trigg crosses. But then again, I've been know to tree bear with a borrowed poodle, but that's another story.

[mike martell]

I think the point has been missed. Blueticks vs. Walker/ running dogs crossed or any other breed for that matter. Day after day a quarter horse can run with a throughbred for a quarter mile.

When you hunt bobcats 5-7 days a week, you beging to see the difference or the point J.C. makes.

There are blueticks that can handle the day in and day out hunting....More of your running dog crossed to treeing walkers just hold up better day after day on average is the point and until you hunt 5-7 days a week it is hard to guage the difference....Most have adequate hounds and speed, endurance.....Here is the problem for most guys, most of you must work to be able to pay to play...Enjoy what you hunt! I never thought I would like a running dog cross until I owned some...Now I will never own a full hound by design.

JMHO....Mike

[kordog]

jc i have to disagree with you on one point ,and that is that running dogs seem to want to catch more .good treedogs run to catch quick in my opinion and arent good at pacing themselves at all. treedogs are sprinters in my opinion.i think the treeing gene enforces it.

[Trueblue]

When you hunt bobcats 5-7 days a week, you beging to see the difference or the point J.C. makes.

There are blueticks that can handle the day in and day out hunting....More of your running dog crossed to treeing walkers just hold up better day after day on average is the point and until you hunt 5-7 days a week it is hard to guage the difference....Most have adequate hounds and speed, endurance.....Here is the problem for most guys, most of you must work to be able to pay to play...Enjoy what you hunt! I never thought I would like a running dog cross until I owned some...Now I will never own a full hound by design.

JMHO....Mike

If you really want to find out what you got then hunt bears 5-7 days a week like I have for over the last 10 years.I have owned a little of everything over the years even running cross dogs.Own one right now that is a 1/4 Trigg 3/4 Treeing Walker.She is a nice dog for sure or she wouldn't be eating my feed.I will own any dog that makes me smile.
In regards to Mike's statement about running cross dogs holding up better,that has not been my experience.I have found some strains of Blueticks(not all) to be the toughest most durable dogs for running day after day.Blue dogs that are too big don't seem to have what I want and need both in the speed and durability department.Treeing Walkers have been the worst for me in the durability department and running crosses fall somewhere in the middle.I've had to cull several Walkers as they just could not hold up to hard hunting,not that there aren't tough durable ones out there.I own one right now that is as tough and durable as any hound I have ever owned.I would never paint a breed with a broad brush like JC has because you can find speed,endurance,durability,nose,etc. etc. in any color,you just have to look in the right places.Is it easier to find speed in a running cross dog ? Yes. Is it possible to find blue dogs that are just as fast ? Absolutely.One of the fastest dog I have ever seen go down a track was a Cameron/Sugar Creek bluetick.He would be at the front...period, whether it was after 5 minutes or 5 hours.The dog also had a screaming bawl that was pure mountain music.Saying that all blueticks are slow is the same as saying that ALL running crosses are fast,it just ain't true.

[al baldwin]

Mike, I never hunted with the shane hound. Stopped by Lloyd/s once & he showed me shane & said he planned on breeding him to Lighting, I ask if he was a good cat dog, Lolyd stated he was a hard tree dog, but would false tree some on a bobcat, but did real good on bear. Lighting was a grandaughter of the chub dog I owned. I had bred chub( who was about 1/4 running blood ) to a registered bluetick female named Sparkle. Sparkle was sired by a hound named Dan, that was a son from one of Dave Dean/s early Hammer stud/s. Sparkle/s dame, was a registered blue female from JC/s Grandad/s line of registered blueticks. From that Chub & Sparkle cross I gave Allen Barnett a female & male pup. Allen had good success catching cats with them and crossed those full littermates. That full littermate crossed produced the Lighting female that Lloyd bred to shane, And the lighting & shane cross has a big influence on the hounds John hunts today. 0f coarse JC HAS THAT BLOOD AS WELL AS LOTS OF OTHER BLOOD IN HIS PACK. Jasper, the name rings a bell, but cannot remember how. Al

[outlaw13]

Trueblue,
I agree a lot with what you have said and you made some very good points. Thank you.

[twist]

Jc, shame on you, you shoud know that if you were a better handler you could train ANY hound to trail and run faster! as we all should know by readind other posts Andy

[Marshall]

. This is good stuff guys..... I can't wait til the gathering when we all want to choke the shit out of each other lol. Fastest blue tick I have ever seen was in the back of a guys truck and he was haulin ass to 12 dog road..... Guess it's 13 dog road now

[merlo_105]

Twist,
Your a funny guy Im gonna go out on a short limb and say that last comment you made was directed to the post I started. A well conditioned dog will most likely gain speed along with the more he is put out on game... I see your from Montana where the ground is light of underbrush and blow downs yeah your dogs might seem quik there but run them in the thick jungle of WA, and Or see how they fair then. Might not be as quik as your believe them to be. JMO

[U.R.E.]

What do you mean it "had to be done". Anybody who is anybody that knows everything about anything that I don't know, already knows that flat tailed white dogs are the only breed that will catch bobs with style....Why would you apologize? I want to thank you. Maybe now I will catch 2 next year. If I could only talk someone out of a REAL cat bred pup. Maybe an "amazing" cat dog pup......Hell I would be happy if I could find a dog that even Dewey couldn't outrun on foot.

Honestly.....I can give 2 squirts of piss about color. Anyone who has seen my crap pack knows that. Maybe that's why I just "get lucky" every now and then. I'm no self proclaimed "top cat hunter" nor do I wish to "leave my legacy" or get rich by claiming ownership to some strain of top cat hounds. I enjoy trying other strains from honest houndsmen that offer pups for a fair price. In return I give the pup 110% and the breeder my honest opinion (for what it is worth) about the progression of the pup. I expect my pup to progress and my abilities as a handler to progress as well (a student of the trade so to speak). Sounds like I have years of schooling ahead of me, with limited years left to do it. Guess I should kennel those dogs up and read BGH more often.

Guess it boils down to "Hunt what you like, Like what you hunt".

Don

[coastrangecathunting]

I was trying to get peoples reasons for picking one over the other. In my opening post I gave some of mine. Trueblue, u made the first remark to me about being raised with junk. My dad caught a ton of game with those dogs I was raised with. The first day he ever took me bear huntin we treed 3 that day. They were all blueticks. I personally think blueticks are the most natural all around dog . Rigging , treeing , trailing . I like a tight mouth dog. When I say tight mouth I mean a dog that opens every hundred yrd when coldtrailing and full open on the jump. when there is a lose shut up. Not all blueticks but the majority I have been around bark to much for me on a cat race. Hope that make since. I said sorry because I knew this would turn in to a heated discussion. So I ask again why do u choose to hunt one verses the other. Mike the shane lightning cross is in the litter warner and I made 7 times in 6 generations.

jc

[david]

John

I like a booming mouth, tell the world and give that high dollar hide a good head start, coupled with a dirty tough all weather hound Thanks, Mike

I Guess I am the only one on here that is 8 years away from having owned a dog. It is kind of wierd the stages of grief I have gone through associated with that. I am not even kidding. Also gives me a different perspective because of the fondest of memories I now hold. One of them is this:

I got a dog from Lloyd named Heidi. He had her trained as a hot nosed dog for his style and population of cats. (Lloyd to me is one of the more amazing trainers for getting what he wanted out of a dog that others probably would never have gotten out of the dog). She was a hot nosed strike dog and knew better than to be anything else. But In the North woods near the shores of Lake Superior where bobcats are few and far between: She became a hard grubbing cold tracking bobcat dog. She had a cold nose!

But that was not what I loved about her. It was her voice. She had the most beautiful expressive and musical voice of any dog I can ever remember hunting with. She could truely sing the blues and it turned my soul inside out.

I dont keep dogs till they get old. When they start catching a high percentage, I get bored and afraid for my cats (they are caught on the ground). My thing is seeing pups turn it on and discover their amazing gifts. Heidi is the only dog I ever kept until old age and death. She was not a threat to ground hugging cats.

She became deaf and could not see very well. She was a very slow cold tracker in her old age. I did not hunt her to catch bobcats, I hunted her to soothe my soul. I got so I would never put her with another dog. But some of my fondest memories in all of my hunting days was this: Putting Heidi on an old cold track, laying down on my dog box facing a myriad of stars, (and sometimes the Northern lights) listening to the most beautiful singer in creation. I would fall asleep there. Then I would wake up to that beautiful sound still wafting it's way to my longing ears. She was so slow that even if she got one jumped it was turned into cold trailing again because she would get so far behind.

That my friends is bobcat hunting for the soul. I hope I can find another Heidi for when I get too old to walk. I don't know how she was bred. She was red ticked in color. If any of you know where Lloyd found that voice, please let me know. My ultimate bobcat dog will be wearing that voice.

[dwalton]

It seems to me that their are a lot of different opinions here. Let me tell you the way it is. Most of you know what is best even though you have not hunted with different packs or dogs in different places and conditions. Well here is the way it is YOU ARE ALL RIGHT. each to their own . Good hunting Dewey

[coastrangecathunting]

David, hiedi was out of shane and lightning.

jc