cold nose?

[al baldwin]

I had a cold noes dog named ole blue coldest in the business . We turned him loose one night coon hunting he struck and took the track up the mountain and came back down to the field , while he was running through the flat empty field he jumped out of no where , he kept trailing and later on sat down on a big ole hollow oak . Now ole blue has never been wrong so we cut it down . To our suprise out came a coon Skeleton . My buddy I took asked me why ole blue jumped for no reason in that wide open field ? Well it's simple there was a Bobwire fence there when the coon came through hahaha

Good one, best laugh, in long time. I need to remember. Al

[CRA]

Mr. Dewey,

I thought of you when I posted that quote. You have said in your past posts, you only know what you know, or something along those lines.

I think hunters always need to keep an open mind about what the possibilities and capabilities of a well bred/trained pack of dogs can do behind a top handler/trainer that gets to hunt hard and often and knows their quarry and what a dog is really doing and not just barking.

There was a top houndsman out in California years ago that ran Bear, Fox and Cat with his dogs. There was many doubters about treeing fox in a certain area they claimed that it just wasn't possible to tree fox there ( because their dogs couldn't and they never witnessed it). The first time this hunter dropped his dogs in that country his dogs treed 3 fox that morning. Most fox races with his dogs seldom lasted over 10 to 15 minutes (jumped). The locals had these fox harassed to death and named. This same hunter could take these top fox dogs and bay a mean bear on the ground all day long in the hot sun in some of the roughest, thickest brush country on the coastal range. He also proved with his dogs that fox could be cold trailed up, jumped and treed. Years ago a lot of guys used to say dogs that cold trailed much couldn't jump a fox and tree it. His dogs proved BS to that theory many times over. His dogs had cold noses and trailed but don't bawl around. They drifted a track and applied an overwhelming amount of track power to their quarry and ran everything with tremendous determination to catch. His dogs caught fox in rough country in bad conditions and made it look fairly easy to do. After hunting with him and his dogs for years, I learned to keep an open mind about what the possibilities of good dogs can do when being hunted behind a top hunter and dog man. His dogs were just plain fun to hunt with. When he dropped his dogs down rarely did you not have to go to them either treed or bayed. He also proved he could call his dogs off a bayed bear "if they could hear him" even before all the fancy electronic equipment there is today. Just imagine the success a hunter like him could have with all the modern equipment hunters have today and his knowledge of dogs the drive and commitment it takes to breed, train and maintain these types of dogs.

[dwalton]

Al: There are no absolutes in the hound hunting world. In the snow they stay on the track unless there is a major spot where there is no scent then they will cast out for it. Sight tracking in the snow they can run a cold track far faster than on bare ground. I am not sure of anything I just call it the way I see it from years of bobcat hunting catching more bobcats than most and talking ,hunting with guys like Tom that catch more cats than I on the coast in your back yard where most people can not catch many cats let alone find them. You got the point what I think is different than what most bobcat hunters think. Look at the guys that hunt like me with dogs like these with the number of cats they catch. Just maybe if some of the old bobcat hunters did not know so much about bobcat hunting they just might learn something. I never hunted with your dog so I don't know if she stood on her head Al. It sounds like she could catch bobcats. Could she tree 90% of the ones she jumped? Could she start a track every time out? How long ago did you have her and where did she go? How many bobcats did she ever tree in a year? I have said a hundred times there are good dogs in every breed. All I am offering is what I have experience by spending many days in the woods in the last 47 years hunting with hounds. A lot of those year having to feed my family on what I caught. Al their are hunters that are more qualified than I about bobcat hunting but most of them won't waste their time to try and educate someone. Tom told me one time about a guy that ask him how many bobcats he had caught his reply [ I am not saying because you will not believe me and say that I have lied]. Do you wonder why so many of the great bobcat hunters don't come on here? I am not in their class at all. I can see why some people might think I have some interesting theories. Most of my theories comes from hard work and having to walk to hundreds of bobcat trees. Where do yours come from? Dewey

[dwalton]

CRA: I have hunted with some top hunters in the past also. It sure is a pleasure to see a top hound man work top dogs. Most of them were made back when we could hunt everything all year long. Thanks for sharing your story. Tom still talks of hunting with your grandfather or maybe father I am not sure. I never got down to hunt with you before you moved. My loss. I hunted last December in a lot of your old stomping grounds. What a loss not being able to hunt that for bobcats again. Take care Dewey

[al baldwin]

Dewey her name was sister. She is buried in the back yard with a marker on her grave. Sister was the grandam of skinner. I guess two times great grandam to pepper, the one tree bred dog you have give a lot of praise too. I treed 47 bobcat one year with her and the Rowdy hound , plus a couple two year old off spring of them. Also hunted some with a couple friends that year. Never kept track of how many holed cat or ones that beat them. But there was for sure a number that eluded them. I managed that number while working a full time job. However, I did save up all my vacation time & used it hunting those dogs. Not a fair thing for my wife, lucky she has stayed with me since 1964. However she loved that sister hound MORE THAN I. Lost sister once in a severe storm, wife demanded I return early the next morning, when news was saying do not travel. I hunted with Tom Barnett when he used to bounty over 100 bobcat a year. These are not number I normally speak of. Once at a class reunion, a classmate told some of the others I normally harvested about 15 cat a year. Some of those mates then living in California called me a cruel game hog. And one gal who later spend the night as a guess of the wife & I reminded me again to not harvest so many cats. What would she think of your harvest? And yes sister could & did tree some cat by herself, one of the most beautiful voices ever hung on a hound. She was in the same class as skinner never considered selling her. Classy set back a ways from the tree & chop steady. Zip hunted with sister a few times ask him about her. Brains, yes have a picture of her sitting on command and holding a front foot in a small dish of Epson salts . Sister was a distance off spring of the bell hound. Dewey I do not question your theories to be disrespectful, just to offer another opinion. Nothing personal. And yes she would let me know if there were cats using in an area, may not start a jumpable track every time out, but assure you she did not miss much. I have hunters like Sam Falk & Willis Sutton to thank for brining part of sisters blood to Oregon. And suppose you can thank them for helping you find Pepper Al

[dwalton]

AL: She sounds like a great dog. It was far enough back she probably still showed the running dog blood in her. I just had to say that. I wish more of them were bred like that instead being bred for competition coon hunting. Take care Dewey

[al baldwin]

Thanks Dewey, you are correct, there should be no arguments about running & tree stock. Sure there are good and poor in each. My wife raised sister & two littermate males from about 5 days old on a bottle. What a job swore would never do that again. I have never seen Tom B.. Will be nice to meet him. And also The Clays. Take care Al

[twist]

All experinced cat dogs learn to sight trail in snow conditions at times but also need to be able to put their noses down and take the track that way also in the snow conditions in ths area as for the most part its cold dry snow and not alot : of scent. Also if that dog can't drift out and find the track in tight areas it will be for a long and slow day that is no
t to prospurose. A true drifting type dog is not one that spends most of its time over running trscks they learn to move a track very well and at a faster pace than the ones that have to smell every inch of the trail. If one has watched a hound that (drifts a track) rather than over running their nose its pretty amazing. If a houndsmen has this style of dog and has put many miles in behind them in the snow its almost magical as you can be fallowing the cat track and making every zig and zag and go through every hellashis spot the cat has taken headed up some hell hole of a canyon and not see a hound track on the cat and boom there it is at the head of the canyon out of the crappy trail conditions is the hound right on the cat is this just luck maybe but when its done time and time again I call it great track style. Jmo Andy

[R Severe]

I had a visit with a friend who hunted for the state of nevada for several years, about what he considered a cold nosed dog. He said he would usualy be three days behind a lion who had caused damage.
He needed dogs who would let him know by sound or action any time they detected lion scent, period. He could then cut ahead and shorten up on a traveling cat.
I had one of his dogs for a winter and hunted him on bare ground and snow. I now agree with his thoughts on what a cold nose dog is.
I've tryed to have at least one cold nosed dog in my pack ever since using his hound.

[dwalton]

Robin: You touch on a very important tip on cold trailing. More so on lion than bobs, [ would let him know by sound or action any time they detected lion scent] It takes dogs with all types of ability to make a top pack of dogs. It is a team effort the right combination of hounds can get the job done faster and better than a couple of dogs with the same traits of working a track. I have a very cold nose dog in my pack but without the other hounds she can be very sticky with them she is very competitive and will run up. Dewey

[R Severe]

Dewey
This has been a good topic and I've enjoyed reading all the comments.
I agree on The benifits and also the negatives on a truely cold nosed dog. For me the benfits outweigh the negatives, it makes the pack better.
My friend in Nevada said most dogs could smell the cat, just not strong enough to trigger a bark or get that tail to windmill.
Thanks for the topic. RS

[Big N' Blue]

Dewey and Robin, You both hit the nail on the head as for as what I have experienced. It does take multi-talented dogs to move a cold track and a super cold nosed dog does have the tendency to stick. I had an old blue gyp that was super cold on a dry ground lion and anytime she got slight whiff you could tell it. She would move a track very well but when the track got warm enough for the other dogs to smell would usually fall behind. Finally got her to where she would pick up her head and catch up. Had a hot nosed dog in the pack that when he could finally smell it would take over and tree it. Without that super cold nosed gyp, the hot nosed dog would not have had the chance to shine. Most people that hunted with me thought he was the best dog in the pack.

[al baldwin]

Yes, I agree most of those colder nosed dogs will not be the fastest once the track warms up and the sister hound was no exception, but I would not call her sticky. She did pick her head up and run when the track got to that point. And did tree some cat alone. The rowdy hound pushed hard on a track with a tracer scent & a daughter of him & sister pushed ever harder on a good track. That daughter was bluetick in color. Her color came from rowdy lineage, & as rowdy & sister aged she was the hound that made the cats climb. She was almost silent until she jumped. Both Rowdy & sister were plenty open when cold trailing. The beauty of hounds that show that nose is they only need to move a track a short ways at times before the rest of the pack can join in and without them one would never realize a track was there. Just my experience. Al

[Big N' Blue]

The beauty of hounds that show that nose is they only need to move a track a short ways at times before the rest of the pack can join in and without them one would never realize a track was there. Just my experience. Al[/quote]

My experience also Al.

[BrandonCombe]

I don't know much about great bobcat dogs or great cold nosed dogs like I keep hearing about he'll I probably haven't even seen as good of cat dogs and cold trailing dogs as some of you guys on here have sitting in the kennels behind your house but in my opinion witch isn't much I figure in general a hounds got a nose and probably most of them are born with similar smelling power but I have seen that some dogs got the drive to work an old track longer than others I don't know how much it has to do with the smelling power of a dog or just the drive and determination and brains to keep working up that old track I got a dog chase that AL would know about and a blue tick I had since the day he was born In the laundry room at the house and they in my opinion are fairly cold nosed or maybe not that cold nosed at all maybe just stick to an old track a lot harder than my other dogs and some times it can be a pain when the hound has more drive than you and your following them for hours in the brush only gettin a bark or 2 every few minutes but they won't call off and won't let you catch them but then again that track my 2 hounds have trouble working some one elses dogs on here mite not have any trouble hard to say since I haven't hunted with you guys on here with these cold nosed cat dogs