Percentage

[mark]

There is always talk about dogs being able to catch cats on their own on here. I think there are a lot of variables to be considered such as snow vs bare ground, public land cats vs private land cats, brushy steep vs flat open ground, tall timber vs pinyon, etc etc etc. Is it harder to find a dog that can rig a track trail it and tree it in 150ft tall trees than it would be to put a dog on a track in the snow trail it and tree it in the pinyon ? Or would it be the same?

What percentage of the cats must that dog be able to catch on its own before you say it can catch on its own. I hear a lot of guys say a dog catches cats on its own but with a few questions asked you find out that the consistency leaves a lot to be desired. Is it possible to have 4-6 dogs at one time that can catch a cat by itself and if it is would you hunt them together or one at a time. Would you hunt that batch till they all die and start over again?

[al baldwin]

Mark think you are correct on the variables. Private ground cats that have not been dogged can sure increase ones catch percentage. For sure a catching snow can be a picnic compared to dry ground. As for locating could depend if a dog was used to locating in tall timber. Mark lots of the old days hunters usually only had from one to three dogs in this area. And knew that one of those hounds were responsible for catching most of their cats. There have always been cats here like the one you ran with JC & John and if one runs a steady diet of those for sure your percentage can slip fast. Mark I believe there must be some cats like that most places. Especially if the cats are treed, harassed in any way & left to run again. As for the percentage treed to consider be able to tree cats alone, my guess if you can tree 50% in dogged areas that takes a good hound. Of coarse there are times when one can hunt these areas and catch a couple cats quick. Think wow caught that runner, return a few days later, get your clock cleaned and think, well must not have caught those runners. Now at times this is where I now wonder, does C John know something about weather conditions, we have never figured out. And C John I say that with respect! Now if one has a super dog none of this makes sense, and they may be out there. I have never seen one of them, but, there are a lot I have never seen. And this is just my experience. Al

[merlo_105]

I think this is a great topic and something I been wondering myself... My opinion is it is possible to have 4-6 dogs that can do it on there own, but some conditions I feel could be easier like running in snow thats just what I hear I dont hunt the snow awhole lot. I caught between 8 and 15 cats per dog before I started hunting them with each other I felt they would see the different ways a cat could run and trick them with that many cats under each dog. I still run them one at a time if tracks are easy to start and find them right off the get go. Just depends I run mostly dry ground steep with lots of blow downs and tree in 150 foot tree's. Back east I felt the cats were alittle easier for the dog I brought from the west coast cause it wasnt steep ground and very little under brush seem'd my dog caught cat quiker but also them cats werent dogged to death. So alot of variables are gonna play. I do not know how many Cats each dog has tree'd on there own as i dont count or keep track. I will hunt these dogs till they cant hunt anymore then I'll start all over again..

[slowandeasy]

It is past my bed time, but I was waiting for this to get interesting. Will check again tomorrow when I get in.


Take care, Willie

[twist]

Al, have to finally disagree with your statement of snow being a picknic compared to dry ground. In some instances yes maybe but 10 degrees and colder with dry cold snow most of the dogs that are considered cold nose in other areas just stand and look at the track as though its not even there. Also it takes a tough hound to hunt those conditions day after day. No disrepect to anyones type of hounds or where they hunt just want houndsmen in other areas to know all snow conditions are not a cake walk. Andy

[al baldwin]

Andy the snow and conditions you describe is not a catching & yes your snow is much different . Here about 3 inches of a damp snow can be a very productive day, compared to a warm dry ground day. I would not have ever wanted to hunt in the snow and temperatures you have there. Al

[mark]

Andy, i wasnt using the snow scenario to say snow was easier than bare ground. I was using it as an example as to how it eliminates two needs of traits in a dog. (Rigging and getting the right end of the track) They are both a must in a dog the way i hunt here,the same with being able to locate good. Those are three more traits a dog needs to have on bare ground and tall trees vs snow and low trees. Every breed and color is capable and does produce dogs like that. It just makes those special dogs a little harder to come by in my opinion.

[twist]

Mark and Al, I orta new you both were tlking of your area just wanted to let others know that all snow is not a cake walk it ure is different hunting in different area that's for sure. Andy

[Mr.pacojack]

My question to you would be... If you had a dog doing it all from the rig to the tree, why on earth would you need 6-8 dogs for a bobcat? ( bear I can see, but not bobcat)
I think a better question would be...guys always talk about a great pack of bobcat hounds, do you think they can do it on their own and have you ever proven it? ( mainly to yourself)
And why would you settle for a dog that may only be doing certain things in the pack instead of a hound that can do it all?
And to answer your question about terrain and different areas, I believe a dog should be a good dog where ever he is put down, he should be smart enough to adjust to different terrain and situations. If he falls into a rut and cant get out then that is the time you need to run another dog with him to help him out. ( or culled)
And, no I wouldn't run them together till they die, I would get to the bottom of the pack and see what each and every dog is doing and if they have strength and weakness that depend on other dogs to consistently catch bobcats then they need to be culled. How on earth would you ever breed for a bobcat dogs from dogs that need others to catch?
And to your comment on snow being easier than dirt, I think you need to rethink that one I will a agree a fresh snow is easier but the different conditions of snow, many times I would rather be running dry ground than 2 week old crusted up, 20 below zero cold , frost infested snow. At that point dirt is looking pretty dang good.
Just picture a pack of dogs that don't need any help from any other dog and you don't have to run 5-7 other dogs to catch a bobcat. Isn't this great land we live in Grand? And we can all run different dogs and different ways and different game. God Bless the USA
Anyway it is always fun reading you guys stuff on here, someday maybe I will invest in a good pack of bobcat dogs but till then I will just keep running this junk I have and catching these easy bobcats. But wait before you get all wound up, it hasn't always been this easy, I went down and got one of those EASY buttons you see on the TV....It works.
P.S. Good talking to you the other night Mark. Stay in touch buddy.

[mark]

LMAO

It took awhile but i knew i could drag you out and down into the gutter with me. You must of dropped a shot of Pendleton in the oatmeal or something this morning. I kinda been missing you on here. You have a standing offer and a place to stay anytime you can get out here!

[mark]

I forgot:
When i go to a nascar race, i want to hear em all not just one or two cars. Lol

[slowandeasy]

I'm pretty sure if you guys would get out in the brush. You would see what dogs were causing your problems. After that is taken care of, building dogs that can catch on their own becomes much easier.


Take care, Willie

[al baldwin]

Mark you have got to get Willie out here, take him down to the Gold Beach area & let him show you how to get in that steep brushy mountain side & be sure what dogs is over running & etc. Al

[dwalton]

I say it until you guys from out of this area get it. You don't need a big pack of dogs to catch a bobcat each dog can and will catch their own, some are better at one thing than others. Unless you have spent time with a good pack of bobcat dogs you will never get why we hunt them. I would venture to say that you guys that hunt lion and bear that catch an occasional bobcat would see a different picture if you came out here and hunted bobcats on our coast range. I have had guys from out this way come and hunt with me that already are bobcat hunters get to see a hole different picture. There are far better hunters out here that catch far more bobcats than I do that could do the same. Their are many reasons why one would hunt several dogs on bobcat and I am sure their are just as many reason not. Each to their own. Dewey

[al baldwin]

Dewey must say I had always felt over four of five hounds on a bobcat was just confusion & it can be. But the past four years combining dogs with a friend, a tight jump race is a real kick. Creates a sound like a good bear race & hunting with a small pack can seem boring at times. Plus to maintain a cat pack one has to be bringing young hounds along. Lose all those old hounds and tough to get young ones going. Al