mental stimulation

[muttman82]

Pretty much everyone in this section agrees that brains is there most important trait in there bobcat dog. Is there anyone that has noticed a direct affect of how a dog is treated at home to how he acts on the hunt. What im asking is a dog that has constant mental stimulation at home going to hunt better and smarter than a dog without mental stimulation, like consistent training, good solid leadership by the handler, a good all around consistency in the dogs home life. I know each person has a different living situation for there dogs, non of which im putting down, im just wondering if people that have had dogs for a long time have changed there living arrangements for there dogs and if it affected them, like kennels compared to dogs living in the yard not kenneled etc. ? Any input would be greatly appreciated

[mike martell]

You leave a dog in a kennel vs. tied out and you will see a huge difference in the dog. Kenneled dogs can become ignorant early on. I think dogs will learn more on a chain. I don't much buy into the brains in a hound, Ironically, I find the reason behind many dogs that fail is because they have a higher IQ than the trainer!

Socialization= mental stimulation is huge and I was taught to never spoil your hunting dog? If I raised a litter of pups, I would hire kids to play and socialize the pups early on if I didn't have them around like I do to give the pups people time, its that important, it makes a huge difference. You will get out exactly what you put in and this is where I have seen many guys try and B.S. about time spent with the dog. To understand this, simply turn the dog loose and watch what happens.....

Mental stimulation is the number one factor in success in owning a top pack of hounds. I will take it one step farther, I think pack dogs are made not born by Ignorance in handling and lack of hunting. If a dog is a pack dog it is because it was never given a chance. To understand this, keep five dogs and less to hunt all species and bank on owning one lead dog. How does one bobcat hunter rig eight dogs loose on the deck and the oldest is only three and not have train wrecks, by the time that same hunters hound turned one year old it has been around the world many times, that is the difference.....Just some thoughts!

Mike

[dwalton]

The more a dog is work with the better it can become. You can not over come poor breeding and make a dog into something it is not no matter how much you may read else where. That is not to say that you can not take any dog and teach it to catch what every game you want it to but it will not be a top dog on game in my opinion [ read again in my opinion]. A dog that is bred for one thing and trained for that, be it bear, bobcat or lion will not excel at what it was not bred and train for. I have seen great combination dogs that do great. Compare it to an Olympic athlete, you do not see a shot putter run the 100 yard dash or the mile. It is two different things. You breed and train a bear dog to be a bear dog you breed a bobcat dog to be a bobcat dog to have the best. The more home work you do the better your dogs will be in the field. People breed dogs to be good at all game which is great and can produce top dogs for any game but until you have hunted with a dog that has been bred and train to hunt one game you have not seen what is possible in a dog. There has been dogs in the northwest that have caught almost every bobcat that they have been put on. Their are or has been a very few people that are capable in train a dog to do that and they start with a dog with that ability. The more you do properly with training that dog the better he will be. Dewey

[Dads dogboy]

Mental Stimulation!

Well if you have read any of my Posts about Dad's philosophy, you know that he feels that the earlier in a Hounds life you start "Mentally" Stimulating it the better.

@ about 2 weeks we start with small "Problem Solving" tasks. No more than putting the pups a small way from mom, and watching to see who is the first to get back to her. Then progressing to getting the Pups to COME and learning their name. Sometime in their 3rd week or so they are given an obstacle to overcome in getting into and out of its nest.

This interaction continues in the Hounds development teaching Problem Solving as well as Obedience.

Now we will agree that Pups raised Outside on a ranch or farm will learn to HUNT quicker than will a Hound raised in a Kennel (either chained or kenneled). However the down side is that they may learn BAD habits that will have to be dealt with later.....all things with raising Hounds just like raising Children is Trade Offs. Running Game Earlier in Life vs running OFF Game in a manner not conducive to effectively running your Game of Choice.

Now not to ruffle any Feathers but we have to agree with Mr. Dewey it is much easier to make a Hound that will suite you, out of one with Parents and Grand Parents who were the kind of Hound that you want to have.....it's the old Adage of trying to make a Silk Purse out of the Ole Sow's Ear!

Check the bottom of the page for additional Threads that discuss Hound Training!

[merlo_105]

Im no expert but I'll have to agree with everyone. I think with proper training and handling alot of non bred cat hounds can catch cat (first hand experience) but I also believe one bred for it has a greater potential of being better. Mental stimulation I think has a huge roll, and thats why I keep my hounds indoors I am lucky enough to do so, some will say it will ruin your dogs and they wont want to hunt, I say bull crap. I picked up two dogs back east they were outdoor dogs one owner had his tied out the other had his in a kennel. When I got them I put the one tied up in a kennel and the one that was in a kennel I tied out. I hunted them and worked with them quite a bit progress in learning seem'd slow. When I moved back West I decided to let them live in the house and by doing that I have alot better handling dogs that seem to hunt harder maybe has to due to the fact there always comfortable and not stress'd or bored. The dog I brought back east was raised in a house till she was about 9 months old then she was outside when I moved to the east. She spent 7 months outside there now she is back to being a indoor dog and she is back to handling better and hunting harder... My dogs are played with and fooled with everday teaching them simple dog tricks with treats they learn quik I also give them treats when they do good on hunts and when not so good they dont get treats and they seem to understand, when they catch there cat and we are back at the truck they head right to the tool box cause they know there getting a treat I find it odd but they know. So there living on a chain or in a house can alter the way they hunt I feel and the big reason is socializing. JMO

[slowandeasy]

Doesn't anyone think most of this comes under the heading of training? I always let the dogs mentally stimulate me. sometimes they stimulate me to shock them. Sometimes they stimulate me to give them a kick in the ass. And last but not least a well deserved atta boy. You all sure are trying to make me over think this stuff.

Take care, Willie

[al baldwin]

I can not over express how important socializing is for pups and young hounds. Have got a few back from hunters who got them from me as pups that it took a ton of patience & time to make nice hound out of them. Lock a young hound in a kennel or chain and give them no human contact and they can became a hound that is scared of everything that moves. Especially when the only contact with the owner was to correct them for barking. While their litter mates that remained here were bold & easy to train. Al

[merlo_105]

Just towards Stimulating your hound, ok that sounds sick but anyways. Seem's like the dogs I have owned wether it be bird dogs or hounds have done better being handled more not just for the fact of handling easier but by spending more time with them your stimulating and teaching and letting them learn. Spending more time with the dog the more his brain is turned on and being stimulated the more he sits in a kennel the less his brain is on. I spoil the crap out of my dogs and I know alot is gonna disagree with doing that but my dogs are always learning and carrying there good behavior and there will to learn towards hunting... Curious to how people stimulate there dogs, besides with Tri-tronics haha

[kordog]

my thoughts on this subject are it is still up to the houndsman wether they are getting the right stimulation inside or out .for instance look at all the problem pets that ceasar deals with that have cushy homes.the hounds i have had inside do listen better, because they are made too more often and there are more rules inside the house..they also que in on my tone and facial expression.the bond perhaps between you and a dog in the house also can be stronger.my buddies hound lives in the house and is a total nuisance.she is running the show.

[cowgurl_up01]

We start all our hounds in the house they stay inside with us for a few months to us this helps build a better bond and helps out when they get sick/hurt and have to come into the house. And because I'm softy I bring one in everyonce in awhile to spoil them lol and we'll take one camping with us sometimes too just to reestablish that bond out of all the hounds men we know there's only one other person who spoils their dogs more than us and shes family

[david]

This is probably my favorite topic. that is because I think it is the single biggest difference between good dogs and great ones. I have known a few people like Cowgurl that bring their pups inside and they always have good dogs. Long ago I read a study by the Miller brothers who had a hound training school. Any time they witnessed or heard about a "once in a lifetime" dog they tracked down the owners to learn everything they could about the dog. They were from every breed and all different bloodlines. They could find nothing the dogs had in common. Except for one thing: They all were raised like family members and/or grew up in an environment when they were mentally stimulated on a daily or hourly basis.

Some folks on here are opposed to attributing anything to a dog that can also be attributed to humans. I think some have a political agenda and just wont be caught dead in agreement with animal rights folks. But if animal rights folks or cult leaders or political leaders take the truth and warp it or use it to further their particular agenda, it does not all of a sudden become untrue. The truth is the truth and we should not abandon it just because we hate our mother-in-law who just spoke it for her manipulative purposes.

And the truth is humans and dogs both have brains.

A brain is a brain. All brains have some things in common. In the human it is well known that a child is pretty well shaped into what they will be by the time they are 8 years old. There are all kinds of things that happen in the development of their brain that can not and will not change after that age.

I believe there are parallels in dogs. I don't know where the "8 year" cut off is on a dog, but I believe it exists and I think it is well before the one year mark. Maybe even as young as 4 to 6 months. This, unfortunately is the period many hounds get the least attention and work of their entire lives. But I believe that this is the only period where the truly GREAT hound can be formed. It is the foundation for which all other time and training and genetic potential is built. Without it, the trainers efforts and genetic research and planning cant possibly produce anything beyond a really Good hound. It will not, in my opinion and experience, ever produce that "once in a life time" hound. You know what I mean, that "once in a life time hound" that some people by some twist of fate (not) end up producing several times in their life.

I do not worry about ignoring an older dog who is finished and has become what it is going to be. But when I have a puppy or young dog, (or child), I am driven by these beliefs and they do not let me rest.

[mefishme1234]

wow that's some good reading!!! thanks. I my pepper dog was super shy, even shy around me if I was nt around much. Since I got the 2 other hounds, shes turned a 180.. to gthe better. she was all by herself for a while and I am hoping her and the new plot female turn into a hunting dyno.. waiting for july 1st....

[LarryBeggs]

Completely agree with every ones thoughts on mental stimulation. I think that it allows a dogs brain to work at the peak of the way it was meant to work. I think there are some things dogs brains are much better at than ours . And some things that they are not. The same in some ways but very different in others. David, I am sorry if I offended you in some way on the other post. Give me a call some time. (541-409-4802). We probably have more in common than you might think. Take care,Larry

[dwalton]

Good posts. David I read the same book in the '60's there were very few how to books on hounds at that time. It was good reading. One can not start training pups to soon, I start at 2 weeks to come and sit. My feelings is that a dog is learning 24 hours a day every day. I would just as soon them learning from me as not learning from from neglect. One can create things in their kennel so they can learn even when you are not there. One can teach a dog to learn as much as you are willing to spend the time to teach them. The hardest thing for us humans to do is teach them on their level so they can understand what we want. Dewey

[South Texan]

I also totally agree on everyone's thoughts in mental stimulation with a pup. Really helps, getting a pup to use his noggin' at a young age.

But on the flip side of the coin, I have also aquired quite a few running dogs thru the years from wolf (coyote) hunters. Dogs 1 to 2 years old. Most wolf hunters around here now just run in pens. They know they won't loose their dogs running in a pen so handle & mental simulation as a pup is not their goal. At least the ones I have gotten dogs from.

So these dogs I have acquired thru the years didn't know "come here" from "sic'em" when I got'em. Didn't know their name, scared, shy, and just real nervous around people and everything else. But after lots of time & hunting most all of them over come this set back from lack of mental stimulation as a pup and went on to make good dogs. Maybe with the right start they would have made great dogs. One of my best dogs in my pack right now is one of these wolf dogs. Thinking back thru the years, there was more of these running dogs I sure wish I had back.

Only thing I can compare it to, is like a real bright kid that never had any kind of education until later in life. But because he was real smart when he was shown the ropes he caught on fast and went on to pull his weight and then some and really made a hand. Some of these running dogs were the same way.

I'm sure not saying this is the way to do it. It takes a lot of work but "sometimes" it will pay off.

All my pups are started like everyone stated above. They make dogs a lot quicker this way when they have that good foundation to work with and chances are greater to get that "really special" dog.
Robbie